Design flaws

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:21 am

Wow, I never thought this thread would last this long.

petridish38 · Post by **petridish38** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:15 am

If you're talking about overall ease of working on the engine, those have to be one of the harder cars to work on... Depending on the honda you may have to take the power steering pump, and sometimes even the passenger CV joint out just to change the alternator. Also, good luck changing the timing belt, water pump, oil pump, etc...

Our engines are one of the easiest engines (that i have found) to work on. Even taking the heads off and rebuilding them was easy.

I can take all 4 spark plugs out, gap them, and put them back in in under 25 minutes. Taking the washer fluid reservoir off is 2 bolts and a connector (<1 minute) and i don't take the airbox out.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:20 am

This is starting to get a bit stupid, some of these complaints are paltry.

As far as working on them, no one can complain too much, even unbolting the exhaust manifolds for motor mounts is minor...

Do you all realize that in 1991 the BC-BF Legacies won Home Mechanic's 7th annual award for "Easy-Maintenance Car Of The Year?" That is taken from Dave's website under the 1991 Legacy Brochure...

Think about it. The engine, for instance. The belts are right in front of you, so is the alternator and a/c compressor. I agree with petridish38, I find it ridiculously unnecessary to take a wheel off and work on timing-belt related issues from the side of the car... And don't bitch about the spark plugs, sometime, try doing the plugs on the firewall side of a transverse V-6, yeah, I thought so...

The tranny, faces front/back, the nice and easy way. The drain plug is easy to reach, and it can be checked/refilled from above the car, many cars aren't like that...

The suspension is SUPER easy! We have one control arm in the front, knuckle pops off of it nice and easy. Axles are a cinch, the pins are easy too, just gotta do em a few times

The missing features (the no-timer rear defog and no fold-down seats for base sedans) are VERY minor and are the only complaints I have with the car...

I like the way it looks, I love the way it drives, and I don't see myself parting with it until a major failure occurs (engine or tranny)...

Yeah, I've gotten quite pissed at it before, and have hastily decided to rid myself of it, but then I just couldn't bring myself to do it... I do have dedication after all...

The End

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:36 am

Very well said, subyluvr2212. Our cars are a dream to work on. My brother and I had to spend the better part of an hour trying to get the ignition coil pack off a GM V6. It's just so darn hard to reach.

Oh, and one time my friend and I bought a 1988 GMC pickup truck for $25, and the dude told us that he'd just been changing the front four spark plugs every tuneup since he couldn't get to the rear two. =)

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:37 am

mikec wrote:My 91 LS had a wide range for intermittent. I was really surprised when I got the turbo that it only had 1 choice. I use the wipers alot like Matt does, just pulling back on the handle.

I may start another thread on this but how hard would it be to transplant the wiper system off an LS or LSI ? I really want the the multi speed intermitting. That would take care of my major complaint.

I agree the plugs are pretty easy on these cars. Try changing the plugs on an econoline 350 V8! The driver side isn't too bad but the passenger side requires removing the front wheel and even then it is a real biatch. And don't even get me started on the ingintion wires!

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:03 am

This isn't so much design flaw, I guess, as much as a complaint. I'm getting real tired of heat sheilds on the exhaust. I know that they are beneficial, but I need to have them tach welded again. I just had them tach welded recently and am going to have to do them again. I just hate the raspy rattling that comes from certain rpm's that resonate those things just right.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:52 pm

Try changing the plugs on a new Mitsubishi Eclipse or the equivalent Chrysler junk. To access the back ones you need to pull off the intake manifold. Dealership wanted $800 for my friend's tune up! She's a girl and they buy cars stupidly. "It was cute, but now I hate it."

She's cute enough anyway, she could get away with driving an Aztek.

Exceptions of course to Laurel.

Steve

PERFORMANCESUBE · Post by **PERFORMANCESUBE** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:09 pm

what about that crap trim above the doors that USED to be black on all of our cars...chrome, oh god, HORRIBLE CROME SPOTS!!!

Jessica

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:48 pm

Try changing plugs and a 2.5 DOHC in an outback, impreza or legacy GT.
these are a joke in comparison.

Mark,

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:57 am

Too many of the complaints in this thread come from people who have worked on three or four vehicles.

When you have more experience you will rethink your comments.

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:14 am

Since we're Griping....

I agree with many of these gripes / whines....

Here's my two:

1. The wipers always get my driver's door, window, and surrounding trim dirty as hell. Sometimes if my windshield is dirty I find myself leaving it dirty until I get to a gas station to clean it with a squeegee, cuz if I use the washer fluid, I automatically have a dirty driver's door and window. There's been so many times where that is the only dirty part of my car.

2. (Much more importantly) No Stock IC

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:16 am

Gotta LOVE the heat though! I think you could make s'mores pretty damn quick with the heat vents!

(Thought I'd Throw in a little love with all this hate)

NuwanD · Post by **NuwanD** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:42 am

not to mention our ac blows pretty damn cold compared to other cars

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:10 pm

Agreed. My friend wants me to help him with the timing chain tensioner that's going bad on his 92 Cherokee. (starting to sound a bit like a diesel)

It appears that we'll have to take the entire front grill and headlight assembly off, since even removing the radiator won't leave us enough room. We haven't really jumped on the procedure for this very reason

This is the same vehicle that you have to LIFT THE ENGINE in order to R&R the alternator

scubaroo · Post by **scubaroo** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:34 am

those darn cup holders that block the radio and ventalation controls. the tilt steering quick releace that locks at the top.

QuickDrive · Post by **QuickDrive** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:59 am

NuwanD wrote:not to mention our ac blows pretty damn cold compared to other cars

Mine didn't seem too, then again I tested it on a cold day...

Bosco wrote:Gotta LOVE the heat though! I think you could make s'mores pretty damn quick with the heat vents!

(Thought I'd Throw in a little love with all this hate)

Heat? My thermostat must be fubar'd My car feels like a top down convertible for 20 minutes before I get roasty....

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:13 am

legacy92ej22t wrote:Yes...Yes I do. My old Ford Explorer (piece of crap) had high, low, then intermitting with like 12 different speeds. I liked it You could set it to wipe almost perfect in any condition. I find myself doing it manually by pulling back on the wiper control in our cars. My turbos intermitting only has 1 speed..... so low, high and intermitting 1 speed.

Same in my Dad's XTerra. Infinite (no knotches, just smooth turning) wiper adjustment. That thing is GREAT.

The intermitent is always to slow or to fast for my taste, so unless it's some crucial downpour, I'll usually just manually control the wipers.

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:21 am

Heat? My thermostat must be fubar'd My car feels like a top down convertible for 20 minutes before I get roasty....

Must be something wrong.... Both My Turbo and my N/A Get warm in like 3 to 5 minutes tops (If driving), after which I almost always set the heat in the "white range".
Otherwise, I get all dried out and sleepy from the heater cooking me alive.

I've only had My SS since November, so I don't really know how well the AC works. No AC Hooked up in the wagon

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:50 am

Yeah just leaving the vent off but the heat in the red section will roast me on trips. If the dryer takes to long with my clothes I'll sometimes put them in the footwell with the heat blasting and go for a drive.

Steve

PERFORMANCESUBE · Post by **PERFORMANCESUBE** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:22 pm

Thanks Know it all....I've worked on at least 100 subaru's

jessica

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:34 pm

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:58 pm

PERFORMANCESUBE: I guess you where talking to me.

My point was that there are no big problems with the subaru line on average. When you have experience on OTHER cars and see the idiotic designs you will be happy with the complaints listed are the only ones to worry about.

For example (off the top of my head)
Removing the wheel to change the battery
Removing the intake to change spark plugs (400 dollar tune ups)
Filling the transmission through the shifter (inside the car)
Taking the oil filter off surrounded by exhaust pipes (not possible without welding gloves)
Replacing the wheel bearings to change rotors
Removing the engine to repair the stearing rack

I could go on.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:26 pm

What car had to have the transmission fluid through the shifter? That's worse than what I've seen. I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to expect your average consumer to do that.

Speaking of dumb, wait until the next Mercedes diesel comes out with refillable urea canister for emissions and their plan to make sure consumers replace it.

I think Subaru's the only maker to come out with a significantly faster, better built, bigger, and safer model that's lighter than the car it replaced (new Legacy).

Steve

PERFORMANCESUBE · Post by **PERFORMANCESUBE** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:00 pm

Ciper--
I totally know what you mean, I've done minor work on other cars, ie Fords, toyotas, jeeps. Even Toyotas, which you would expect to be easy as well, are not, oil filters that you can't get to unless you burn yourself or cut yourself, only to get oil all over the exhaust and shit that takes days to bunr off.....SUBARU'S DESIGN FLAWS ARE MINISCULE COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHER SHIT ON THE ROAD TODAY!

Jessica

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:50 am

Don't forget the BMW AWD sedans where one of the axles goes through the oil pan

I remembered something else though, it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen on a car...

On my Legacy, if the driver's door is open and the key is in the ignition, it will beep at you. If you were to push the button in the doorframe to simulate the closed door, the interior light in the dash will go out, the little indicator on the dash will go out, but it will keep beeping!! Anyone else notice that?

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Design flaws

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CIPER