legacy sport sedan and touring wagon "performance"

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:27 am

Ok...both of those have no real definitions...

Especially the term "badass"...that is very subjective...

Your post is full of logical fallacies, just like your air filter thread, which ultimately led to you being proven wrong.

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:36 am

nice edit 555 "

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
You never gave me any real definition of what you thought a performance car was...

and its Legacy RS by the way, not RA

I vote for thread lockage... Confused"

mr soul · Post by **mr soul** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:09 pm

No lockage, this site needs more drama, it's good to keep the locals on their toes

I might get flamed for this but I'm pretty much agree with ramathorn. Purpose built, no, the legacy is not. Pure performance, no, wrong again. But they are as 555 points out, a detuned performance car for the public. Homolgation rules were great to get these types of vehicles on the road for general consumption. Subaru was nice enough to make them appealing to the market by including utility and amenity. Which any car maker needs to do because sales are the main motivation.

I've bought and sold many turbo legacies. Bought and sold 3 VR4s, and personally own a GTX an EVO (even though I've never driven it) and OH NOES, a 2.2t impretzel.

By today's standards, what makes a Turbo legacy great in my mind, its balance of performance with utility, and tremendous upgrade potential. Relatively CHEAP! Stout block, (which the rest of the world lusts after), little things, piston oil squirters, oil cooler, rear LSD (91'), decent brakes (vented rears), sway bars, good suspension, and a true mechanical AWD system. Off the showroom floor, no not a pure performance car, but a great package for the money.

ZO6 to a SS, is a laughable comparison, apples to oranges. I would take the Z06, sell it and keep my Subarat, mazdog, and misterbitchy.

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:21 pm

again, in deffinatly not comparing the zo6 to the ss i was just listing a car that screams performance.

edit:thanks for your support on the subject.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:25 pm

mr soul wrote: ZO6 to a SS, is a laughable comparison, apples to oranges. I would take the Z06, sell it and keep my Subarat, mazdog, and misterbitchy.

Hell yes!!!

Corvettes are garbage

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:51 am

Its not what you're saying, but how you say it. Your statements come across very arrogant in an instegating sort of way. This is an older/more mature crowd here, a complete 180 from nasioc, iwsti, and so on. The way you put things, like your last two posts, just rub people the wrong way. You had a reasonable question, but the delivery was terrible and you recieved responses based on that.

And my Legacy IS a performance/sports car. Without a doubt

Corvettes are garbage

Wrap your ass in fiberglass baby!

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:31 pm

ramathorn wrote:
ramathorn wrote: like i stated i consider a performance car somthing that is purpose built.
will that quote work?

The Corvette is purpose built for bald old men to cruise around on the street in. The mid-life crisis is the target market. The amount of understeer in a C6 is a total joke. If it were REALLY purpose built, it wouldn't push more than turn-in, and it wouldn't have a steering wheel that feels like your stirring a pot of mashed potatos. Is it a high performance car? Yes. But it is NOT purpose built for the track. Even the Z06 has some of the same downfalls. Blame lazy consumers more concerned with image than performance.

Truth be told, the only purpose built performance cars are race cars. Concessions are always made for the public. A purpose built performance car wouldn't have leather seats, a heated steering wheel, and a built in ball-washer. It's almost impossible to find a stock car with suspension capable of handling the speeds attainable at the track. By your logic, only the most expensive of the expensive supercars are technically performance cars.

Would you consider the Miata a performance car? They are slow, and I'm sure Mazda never expected them to take off like they have. But in the years between the RX7 and the MS3, they were the best handling Mazda on these shores. The Legacy SS was the same way. It was the best performing car in the Subaru lineup in the US.

It doesn't really matter what the car, there will always be someone who takes it to the track. From an 81 Civic, to a Z06. Someone will take one to the track, and someone will decorate it in checkered flags, spinner wheels, and have a model of it on the dashboard.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, it's impossible to say that the SS was built without any concessions to performance. The USDM Sport Sedan has little itty-bitty nozzles in the block to squirt oil on the bottom side of the piston to keep the pistons cool. Why on earth would they do that, if they cared nothing about performance? Same goes for the closed deck block. Why do it? It was extra cost for no benefit to the general public... Except those who could embrace it and build from it. Performance cars aren't mass produced. They are built.

Steve said it best. Just because technology has surpassed it, doesn't mean it wasn't something out of this world when it came out.

And he's right, a Frog is still a predator.

Would I consider the SS to be a performance car? Depends on your ideas of what a performance car is. Compared to the rest of the lineup? Absolutely. Compared to other cars in it's field? Probably. It was one of the very few Turbo AWD cars on the road in it's day. Would I call it a performance car by todays standards? No. It's not at all. It'd be foolish to say so. But in the days before what I would call current performance cars (the z06 is included in that), it was a pretty healthy contender.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:24 pm

My latest design (and I think, final one) for the car I'm going to build as soon as I can finish off my debt and clear my garage is a center cockpit ~1000 lb car powered by an S2000 drivetrain that will pull easily over 1g lateral. But what do I consider this primarily to be? An economy car.

Subtle · Post by **Subtle** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:50 pm

The early 1990s Turbo Legacy as sold outside of North America had about 200 chp and the same number on torque.

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Tue May 22, 2007 5:02 pm

Subtle wrote:The early 1990s Turbo Legacy as sold outside of North America had about 200 chp and the same number on torque.

Yeah - you have to remember we always got "dumbed down" versions of everything....

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:47 pm

BAC5.2 wrote: and it wouldn't have a steering wheel that feels like your stirring a pot of mashed potatos.

That sounds like a Clarkson analogy lol

"The Z06 is like herpes: Heaps of fun to get; not so much fun to live with"

smh0101 · Post by **smh0101** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:16 am

just curious dude BUT y the hell do u care? Okay its obviosly not a SportS Car but a SPORTY Rally car.

Yes These were made for rally. NOT street racin.

So if you please quit whining about the fact that we like our subes and you ( esecially a meesobitchy dude) dont understand it.

Sorry If I sound irritated but I like my car.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:33 am

The guy owns a 22T swapped GC?

Why would you bother putting a turbo engine into another 4 door impreza sedan?

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:35 am

first of all i was just bringing up a subject that 555 and i were talking about on aim and thought id let some of you guys share in on the topic and see your views and valid points on the car. look through my relpies in this thread and youll see that i never bashed on the legacy turbo (if i did please point it out because it was unintentional).

ahahaha who brought street racing up?

it looks like you diddnt read all of the post because youll notice ive had more subaru's than dsm's. besides what does being a "dsm guy" have to do with anything? as i wrote ealier in this thread im not an anti-legacy guy im a pro- awd/ rwd turbo guy. whatever you want to take that as all-trac, gtx, tsi, gsx, a4, subaru, 240sx, ae86, ls400, the list goes on.

yeah you do sound irritated and like a little girl. now that this thread is getting more and more off topic from the original post im sure its just a matter of time before it is closed or moved to the ashtray.

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:37 am

Splinter wrote:The guy owns a 22T swapped GC?

Why would you bother putting a turbo engine into another 4 door impreza sedan?

my car is a coupe smart guy. there are other impreza's besides sedans/

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:50 am

The coupe is a GM6, smart guy

Howd you manage to swap an engine without noticing that?

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:59 am

ramathorn wrote:
Splinter wrote:The guy owns a 22T swapped GC?

Why would you bother putting a turbo engine into another 4 door impreza sedan?
my car is a coupe smart guy. there are other impreza's besides sedans/

again as i wrote my car is a COUPE. where did i mention gc?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:02 am

ramathorn wrote:
like 555bcturbo said i have ads looking for parts is because i have a ej22t swapped gc.

Right there.

ramathorn · Post by **ramathorn** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:07 am

my bad, you got me now.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:46 am

Good God...this is getting just silly

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:19 am

This whole thread is silly.

The legacy is not and never was a sports car. Its a sport sedan. They are very, very different things.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:55 am

Splinter wrote:This whole thread is silly.

The legacy is not and never was a sports car. Its a sport sedan. They are very, very different things.

I agree 1,000,000,000%

Sports Sedans are cool...because you can have fun, and haul a bunch of junk/people at the same time...

Sport Wagons are even cooler, because you can have fun, haul a bunch of people, and even more junk than the sport sedans...

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:34 am

555BCTurbo wrote:
BAC5.2 wrote: and it wouldn't have a steering wheel that feels like your stirring a pot of mashed potatos.

That sounds like a Clarkson analogy lol

"The Z06 is like herpes: Heaps of fun to get; not so much fun to live with"

Now that's a good quote.

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:01 am

+1 lol

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:53 pm

Go subaru!! IMO the turbo legacy is "sporty" by no means does sport sedan mean sport car. I guess subaru just wanted to confuse you ramathorn

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legacy sport sedan and touring wagon "performance"