The dreaded hesitation...ECU in limp mode all the time.

[biglittledog]

Hi everyone! I'm a noob here but I've been reading the archives for weeks trying to get my '94 Legacy L Alpine AT going. I've not had the car long but here's what's up:
Got it for 650 dollars, the idle is perfect but it won't accelerate at all unless the engine is revved. The PO also never understood what the "manual" mode was all about and compounded the problem by starting off in 2nd or 3rd gear and then the car REALLY wouldn't move.
I replaced the plugs, air filter, fuel filter, all accessory belts.
The car had a wobbly harmonic balancer but the bolt wouldn't tighten because the PO had left two bolts in the 4 holes and then tightened the large bolt on top. I removed the two bolts and torqued the main bolt to 135ft/lbs. It seems fine now with no wobbling whatsoever.
The car ran like a champ for three days...if I floored it on my driveway it would even spin both front wheels in the dirt trying to get traction. That's not bad for an AT 2.2L at 7000ft here.
The ECU is now in limp mode again with no warning, it idles perfectly but sucks until 2500rpm then pulls pretty hard. Like others have described, from a stop I can hold WOT and the car will not move and the RPM's will stay constant. I can only drive it by feathering gas gently.
The car is not giving me any codes at all, even in "D mode" with the green connectors. I've reset it multiple times including no battery overnight. I pulled the plugs and they are perfect (I also just replaced the wires and coil pack because I could hear some arcing) and retorqued the knock sensor which was too tight but nothing seems to make a difference. It would be nice if the Sooby would give me a clue as to why it's in wimp mode but no luck.
I also tried to check the timing with a light but there is no notch I can see to read against the scale...is there a secret to this?
All my gauge lights went out at the same time and no fuses are blown...wtf? Any relays I can check for this?
Any help at all would be absolutely appreciated at this point!
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

[biglittledog]

Any and I mean any ideas would be great!
I could also use a quick note on how to check the timing. I have the light hooked up and I see the scale on the timing cover but there's no notch or line on the pulley to check it against....what gives?

[grippingdrifting]

Is the CEL on? I had issues when I first got my 4EAT several months ago (still trying to figure some of them out). The advice I got was to start with the battery, alternator, coolant temp sensor, and proper grounding.

[biglittledog]

Thanks! I've got no CEL codes flashing. I haven't check the coolant sensor yet and that's a good idea.
I did put some tape on the pulley with no notch and can see that the timing is retarding an incredible amount when its idling and when you give it gas it goes back even more. I pulled the knock sensor and its cracked and is the older grey connector so I think that's the main problem and I should have a replacement tomorrow.
This car has probably been driven like this for a long time and I'm wondering how much carbon is built up in the cylinder heads. That could cause pinging at idle and make the timing retard there too.

[Gregmckenna]

do u supose the check engine light blub is blown or was removed when the car was sold to you??

[biglittledog]

Hi,
I turned out to be that my crankshaft keyway was a mess and the key was destroyed. The timing gear had shifted about 30 degrees and instead of fixing it, the PO moved the timing belt 4 notches. The ignition timing was then "sort of" in the ballpark but the valves were 30 degrees off. It's amazing the engine even ran at all but also explains full-time limp mode. The ECU couldn't deal with it. I figured out the belt problem when I put on a new belt, gear, and pulley and repaired the keyway. The new belt lined up on the cam sprockets but not the crank and I hadn't moved anything.
Definitely done on purpose too.

[NuclearBacon]

wow, i had a similar problem... well ... kinda...

did you get it running????

[biglittledog]

Yes, it seems to running great now. It's like a different vehicle! We've put around a thousand miles on it so far. I'm curious how long the repair will last but it seems solid as a rock. Not too expensive really.
New timing gear and woodruff key assembled with Loctite 660.
New timing belt while I was in there...no leaking seals so I left them alone.
Crank Pulley assembled with Loctite 660.
New Crankbolt assembled with Loctite 243 and torqued to 135 ft/lbs.

I have pics of the keyway and destroyed timing gear and pulley. Also one showing how the belt was moved 4 teeth...

[NuclearBacon]

oh man, you gotta post those pics...

i love seeing the carnage...

[biglittledog]

These are shots of my timing gear...this is what I saw with the pulley removed. Next is a close up of the crankshaft with the destroyed keyway.
Last is a picture of the old and new timing gear. The old one had worn metal away by grinding against the engine block. Surprisingly, the front crankseal was still fine.

[biglittledog]

Last is a pic showing the timing belt has been moved. This is with the new belt on lined up with the cams correctly but the crankshaft was way off. After I took this picture, I lined up the crank correctly and assembled everything and the car runs great so far.


GREEN shows crankshaft sensor and timing gear mark...these should be above one another.
YELLOW shows the moved and correct position on the gear teeth. It has been moved 4 teeth clockwise to advance the timing in a stupid attempt to account for the worn keyway.
RED shows the approximate angle of valve advance...pretty drastic and no wonder the ECU was going nuts!

[Bheinen74]

in your first post, the symptoms were 100% same as when my 92SS had the timing off, bought the car that way.
I am sure there are many others with the same problem, same symptoms, and it is the timing off, either by skipping a tooth, or a bad crank woodruff key. never seen any other car manufacturer with so many timing issues as subaru.

[biglittledog]

The worn keyway is definitely a SOA issue that was never dealt with. Putting the timing gear and pulley on without an assembly compound is just wrong and is compounded by the manuals having the wrong torque value for the crankshaft bolt. My uneducated guess is if they had gotten the tightening right plus a loctite compound when they put the motor together, none of us would be talking about this problem.
I'll bet you're right about loads of cars driving around with this problem. It happens gradually and the car loses power gradually so the owner either doesn't notice or thinks the engine is wearing out. The 2.2L actually seems remarkably tough and long lived, it just has the keyway issue, knock sensors that wear out, and maybe oil pump backing screws that get loose. Yes, Soobies have problems but my Jeep Grand Cherokee is a bonafide nightmare. That car doesn't go 4 months without some CEL coming on or something weird happening plus it's an utter PITA to work on. At least I can work on the Legacy and the parts aren't outrageous in price.

[FilmMaster]

Im having the same problem with my 90 legacy....i either feather or floor it and it just hesitates and never gets above 2000 rpms. my starer went out, cd player turns on and off and it is running a little colder than normal...do you think it is the same problem???