what do ya think about the new hatch body style

[MPtyza]

The sedan I can live with. I do hate the rear styling of it though. First time I saw one I swore it was a Kia until I realized what I was looking at. The Rio, I believe has very similar taillights, and the oval KIA emblem is in the same damn spot on the trunk as the Subaru one on the Impreza.

The bastards at the dealership I went to wouldn't open the sedan for us. Getting them to unlock the hatchback was a challenge. The only 5 speed they had was also the only sedan they had, which of course I couldn't get a drive in. I now remember why I don't go to that dealership, my local one that's all of 2 miles away is nothing but a bunch of nice people. They fixed the overheating problem on my mom's old Forester for free.

I'm sure the new Impreza will be just as reliable and have nice handling as usual, but I agree that it is just too mainstream. And what's with the tach only being 2/3 of a circle and the lack of a temp gauge? I like having two big round main gauges

[evolutionmovement]

Mike, that guy on the other board made my point exactly and that's why they are dead to me. I never loved Subaru for being fast - that's the sole concern of their new, immature, stupid crowd (stupid because if you're after outright performance, then why are you into Subaru? There are cheaper, much better, less compromised ways to 'go fast'). I liked them because the manual steering of the old ones talked to you better than most any other car I've driven, they were dirt cheap to run, easy and quick to fix, built like tanks without the mileage or maneuverability penalty, and if you could take a corner at 60 in the dry you could pretty much take a corner at 60 in the wet or embarass SUVs in the snow.

I've been in fast cars that put me to sleep, but the old Subarus always put a grin on my face. Now I just cringe when I look at them or spot the crooked hat in the driver's seat that I want no association with. WRXs are the new Camaro, whether either owner would like to admit it or not.

Plus I always like being different. When too many people get into something, they ruin it. I guess when I build my own car, I won't have to worry about that.

[greg donovan]

So, why I needed a couple days to think was because I was going back and forth deciding whether the driving experience I had (which was mostly positive) was enough to outweigh the fact that I think the car is now a little too mainstream and cookie-cutter...


... and I decided it wasn't.

I got in an argument with someone on another board because they were saying that they didn't care about those "minor" things... as long as the car performs better. Well, yes. I'm here to say the car DOES perform better. I think we've already had numbers come up that the new car is faster in a slalom and pulls a percentage more g's and all that fun stuff. Yes, it does.

But my rebuttal to his argument was that speed isn't everything. Those who know me know that my automotive enthusiasm lies in more than just speed. Two of the Subarus I own are under 100hp for God's sake. But I still love them, because they're the quirky and eccentric Subarus that I've grown to know and love over the past few years.

i will agree that the interior is very different from what has come before. the loyales, legacys and imprezas all have very similar layouts.

i think that the performance would outweigh that stuff in my opinion. i will have to drive one to see for myself.

[greg donovan]

Mike, that guy on the other board made my point exactly and that's why they are dead to me. I never loved Subaru for being fast - that's the sole concern of their new, immature, stupid crowd (stupid because if you're after outright performance, then why are you into Subaru? There are cheaper, much better, less compromised ways to 'go fast'). I liked them because the manual steering of the old ones talked to you better than most any other car I've driven, they were dirt cheap to run, easy and quick to fix, built like tanks without the mileage or maneuverability penalty, and if you could take a corner at 60 in the dry you could pretty much take a corner at 60 in the wet or embarass SUVs in the snow.

I've been in fast cars that put me to sleep, but the old Subarus always put a grin on my face. Now I just cringe when I look at them or spot the crooked hat in the driver's seat that I want no association with. WRXs are the new Camaro, whether either owner would like to admit it or not.

see, i could care less about the other people driving subarus. i drive what i like. and i would love to drive a WRB WRX. who cares if everybody and their grandma has one. i like it and would love to have one. especially a wingless WRB 02 WRX sedan. even better if it had some nice 15 inch gold team dynamics wheels with some good gravel tires on it topped off with some big ass driving/fog lights.

i think this new car is pretty cool. but i cant afford one untill it hits the 10-12,000 dollar mark on the used car market so none of this really matters i guess.

[evolutionmovement]

It's not as much the number of people that own them as the type. Not that I'd buy a WRX anyway, but even the Legacy is tainted. When I think Camaro, I think car-on-blocks-in-front-of-trailer white trash. When I think Subaru now, I think pointless, insecure, identity-less crooked hatter or self-described 'playas', the exact people I will kill by the dozens for fun had I a proper society to live in (though a proper society wouldn't breed this type of loser, so I guess I'd never get to live in my perfect world of hunting seasons for losers). These are nearly the same as the Honda idiots. They'd all be great to use as food to save endangered predators.

Subaru used to be the outsiders choice, but I guess it doesn't matter since the cars are no longer unique either. Everyone and their grandmother makes a similar car and pretty much all of them are more attractive. And that interior would be a deal-breaker regardless of the outside. I absolutely hate the look of that.

Lots of people have Mazda 3s also, but there isn't an established type yet and they're more the slightly oddball outsiders' choice now compared to Honda or Toyota.

[PhyrraM]

And here I thought we were talking about the actual cars, not percieved stereotypes of people you don't even know based on the cars that they choose to drive?

I'm as much of a Honduh hater as the next guy, but there are over 400 million people in North America. There are thousands of reasons to choose or not choose a Subaru.

It's the 21st century people. Look around, times change. WE choose to move on or stagnate romanticing about the way it was. You'll be able to keep your BC/BF/GC/GF/GM/etc. on the road for 30+ years to come if you so choose.

[evolutionmovement]

There are too many people in the world to waste time not stereotyping. Besides, we're talking about people wtih no identity - they ARE a stereotype. As much as it may not be agreeable, what you drive and how you modify it reflects upon the owner. Some cars are just cars and say little more than the owner isn't a gear head, but something like a WRX is something bought for a reason other than practical transportation. Possibly a regular Impreza or a Forester is bought as a regular car, but the taint of the crooked-hatters is all over the company. Subaru used to just be a slightly different choice that told of no definite group affiliation (unless a diesel was driving it or there were hippie stickers on the back). Now they're associatied with monkeys.

If cars didn't bear upon the owner's image, then we'd all be driving beige electric boxes. The idea that how you carry yourself and what you drive (they are much the same) doesn't show others a bit of yourself at a glance sounds too much like the idealism of populace homogeny that gave rise to the impossibility of communism. People aren't all the same, but most do tend to fall into groups (by choice, usually, since this country does nothing to encourage the development of individual identity or the discovery of the satisfaction and confidence that comes from personal achievment instead of the false high from making lots of money at the expense of anything meaningful or just trying to look like you make lots of money by consuming more shit).

[PhyrraM]

So your saying that your not too concerned with the car? Your just trying to avoid being associated with a stereotype you would prefer not to be placed in?

[thehookeup]

in a weird way i like the direction that this post is going. as far as stereo type of wrx/25rs guys. originally it was a a unique group of people that bought these cars. they eventually evolved in to total dickheads(just visit nasioc, i cant be on that forum for more than 5 mins at a time without getting super salty)

legacy people seem to be more down to earth, but then again im a little bias just because i am one.

im not a huge fan of the new imprezas but it will be interesting to see what the new owners will do, with their horrible new platform. dickhead, humble, or nothing(because the car wont sell).

[entirelyturbo]

Steve, if I may, I believe what you're saying (and I agree with it) is that the mark on the Subaru line has already been made by the douchebags that own them. This happened when the WRX came out. But to top it all off, with this new Impreza, Subaru is now catering to them.

It would have been one thing if douchebags were just buying the cars as long as Subaru decided to stick to their guns and make quirky cars. I could accept that (I could own a GD Impreza; I'd at least go a different direction with it though).

But Subaru is embracing these douchebags and has built them a car that they can feel more douchebaggy in.

Neither Steve nor I want any part of that.

[PhyrraM]

While I agree that I would have gone a different direction with the new Impreza, I don't think that Subaru is catering to the 'douchebags'.

Subaru has been trying to move it's whole lineup more mainstream for a long time. So they might be a bit more succesful this time. But this new Impreza is clearly right down the path of progression we have seen in every Subaru product.

Subaru hasn't done anything different or unexpected. And neither have we, I guess. Every change is going to have 'sides' on the inta-net.




Either way, I'm enjoyoing the conversation.

[evolutionmovement]

I don't like the car on its own. I haven't liked all of Subaru's products in the past either, but the new cars aren't Subarus to me. If Porsche can be the most profitable car company yet be a stagnant shadow of what they were or Morgan can build cars with wood frames then Subaru should be able to at least keep their identity. They can't help douches buying their cars, especially the used ones, but they seem to be catering to them, abandoning their identity in the process. I have no problem with a company changing, but when you successfully occupy a niche, abandoning it should not be taken lightly, particularly with a fickle customer base. Some brands cannot be expanded to a mainstream audience. Subaru is trying to look like a 'premium brand' but it isn't and is unlikely to ever be with their past identity and their present direction.

Hyundai stands a much better chance of going premium with their more mainstream vehicles than Subaru. I don't say this to be denigrating - I'm impressed by what Hyundai's done and where they're heading. The spectre of the disastrous early cars have been exorcised by the 100k warranty they've had for the last 10 years and they've been heavily investing in quality and design. What's left of the brand perception is more akin to a clean slate (something like what Lexus had upon their debut) than a pigeon hole they can't get out of. As long as they make a competitve vehicle at a lower price, they can sell them (within reason as at a certain price level the brand becomes far more important than the product) and if they sell enough for long enough and keep improving them, they will eventually be more acceptable to the superficial high-middle of the market, especially as the German cars become more and more ubiquitous and people will be looking for something different.

Subaru is in a pigeon hole, like Saab, in terms of perception and it would be easier to start a new car company than try to get out of that hole. At least their hole isn't a bad one - try being domestic GM - even if they built a good car, only the same declining population of people would buy them, but not if the price goes up. Look at the Saturn Aura - an actual competitive car, yet it isn't selling. What they should allow Saab to do is a whole other long story.

[entirelyturbo]

Oh, and I've been meaning to get these uploaded.

Here's the sedan right after I drove it and parked it on display, with all the protective wrap off of it:

[greg donovan]

with the higher roof and increased headroom the new WRX is going to be a blast to rallycross/autocross since you wont have to squeeze in there so tight when you have a helmet on.

[greg donovan]

the random chrome strip on the trunk is indeed odd.

i guess i dont really care what the other drivers of a particular make/model of car are like.

that is a mentality that i just dont understand.

maybe it is because i am 32. however, i have never felt this way.

you need to buy what you like and not worry about others. you will be much happier in life that way. and if you guys really dislike the new Impreza that is really fine. but all the gloom and doom "subaru is dead to me" crap sound ridiculous. the new car hasnt suddenly taken all the old cars off the market.

[greg donovan]

the interior layout does remind me of the tribeca. and the tribeca reminds me of the SVX in the way it curves and wraps around the cockpit. so it is sort of following a subaru design theme.

[evolutionmovement]

Nobody said that when something dies it is erased. Subaru is dead in that they no longer make interesting cars that are inexpensive (relatively) and meant to stay that way. Ask a Saab guy and they'll likely tell you the same thing about Saabs (or Mercedes maybe, or possibly Volvo). It used to be nice to own a Subaru because you met interesting people, but now you just meet tool bags and the last thing I'd want is to buy a new car and be approached by those losers at a gas station or something to talk about mad dvd playas in the seats and all that sit, yo. I see having to deal with trash as a definite block to my ability to tolerate living around humans through ignoring them as best I can, but I guess that's just me. The Mazda starts too many conversations as it is (though I have no idea why and at least those people haven't been shit breathers yet). But you live in ND so the interaction is probably more welcome.

What's with the wheels? They look like they're 15", 185s under those arches. I can see that with the base model, but on the performance version? Stupid. It might as well be a Corolla. Oh wait, they must be making it so some sweet dubs can fit under there. Werd. And that chrome strip does look just tacked on. It isn't even integrated into the shape.

[entirelyturbo]

Keep in mind Greg, I'd be willing to be a lifelong customer of Subaru if they would only continue to build cars that I'd be interested in.

But if they keep this up, they're gonna lose me.

In the interest of fairness, I must clarify on the parking switch. I played with this when I test-drove it, but kept forgetting to mention it.

On the 08 Impreza, the headlights do turn off when you actually remove the key from the ignition, and they turn back on when you restart the car. So, you can still leave your headlight switch on constantly like you did before. BUT... if you turn the car off, turn the headlights off, then turn them back on, they will come back on.

So, my rational side says it's really not all that big of a deal. And I guess in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't. But I'm too much of a dork to fully accept it, and I'd still rather have it the old way.

Anyway, I'm sure I could find more stuff to complain about to keep the discussion going, but I think I've said all I need to say, and to say more would just be redundant. So I'll drop it here, for good this time .

No use crying over spilled milk, or normalized Subarus

[thehookeup]

No use crying over spilled milk, or normalized Subarus

it just made me laugh

[evolutionmovement]

So wait, that switch deal actually sounds like a better idea. Usually I like to bury bodies in the woods in the dark (when I can't get to a boat) so I only have to end up burrying more than what I brought in, but sometimes you can be pretty sure you're safe from prying eyes and need some light.

[greg donovan]

Nobody said that when something dies it is erased. Subaru is dead in that they no longer make interesting cars that are inexpensive (relatively) and meant to stay that way. Ask a Saab guy and they'll likely tell you the same thing about Saabs (or Mercedes maybe, or possibly Volvo). It used to be nice to own a Subaru because you met interesting people, but now you just meet tool bags and the last thing I'd want is to buy a new car and be approached by those losers at a gas station or something to talk about mad dvd playas in the seats and all that sit, yo. I see having to deal with trash as a definite block to my ability to tolerate living around humans through ignoring them as best I can, but I guess that's just me. The Mazda starts too many conversations as it is (though I have no idea why and at least those people haven't been shit breathers yet). But you live in ND so the interaction is probably more welcome.

What's with the wheels? They look like they're 15", 185s under those arches. I can see that with the base model, but on the performance version? Stupid. It might as well be a Corolla. Oh wait, they must be making it so some sweet dubs can fit under there. Werd. And that chrome strip does look just tacked on. It isn't even integrated into the shape.

the wheels are 17s. i dont get why they look so tiny. the 15s ont he SRTUSA mockup at the X Games looked like 13s. there is a lot of sheetmetal in the rear 1/4 panel.

they should not have tried to make the impreza look like a little tribeca. it should look like a little legacy.

the WRC prototype looks really hot.

i dont think that the new impreza is catering to the "crooked hat" crowd, as you call them.

they seem to really hate the new car.

the ones that seem to like it the most are the ones who are a bit older (like myself) and were really big fans of the 85-92 GL/Loyales.

the car seems to refined and grown up for the crooked hatters.

the new impreza base model will be priced at 17,000. that is really cheap for a well equiped awd vehicle. and i would bet that thing will do 200,000 miles with basic care just like my 95 legacy has.

there has always been two levels of subaru. the cheap to own subarus, and the Turbo subarus. there has never been anything cheap about the turbo subarus. and they have been slapping turbos on to the cars since the early 80s.

which reminds me i REALLY want an old 80-84 2 door coupe. i test drove one once and that thing was indeed awesome. aside from the non working dash , the crappy automatic trans and the ruined rear brakes that barely worked.

[greg donovan]

oops

[Manarius]

It seems that a lot of the new Impreza owners are dbags. I mean, come on, there are people asking 9k for pre 2002 2.5RS's and they really aren't that fast or interesting in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, I know a lot of Impreza owners around here and they aren't dbags. Some of them are ricers, but a lot of them are down to Earth kind of guys interesting in tuning, not looking glitzy. One thing I've noticed about SVX owners is that rarely any of them are ricey. They want their cars to remain looking mostly stock and some of them are interested in performance (legit performance). Not many are below mid 20's in age and they treat the car like a rare machine.

It's interesting to me because I went from driving a Legacy to a SVX. It's rather different - no virgin switch on the steering wheel, framed windows, etc. But, the car is the ideal representation of what Subaru used to be - quirky cars that can be run into the ground and still keep going. The SVX is one weird-ass car if I do say so myself - especially compared to my old Legacy. Back before the Legacy and the EJ series engines, most people thought as Subaru as an off-brand - something to stay away from because you might be thought to be a little...weird.

Now, it seems like Subaru is just trying to blend in. They're becoming like every other car manufacturer. There's nothing to really inspire that "I drive a Subaru" mentality. With the older cars, when the driver said they were driving a Subaru, they did it proudly and were willing to defend their car to the bitter end. Now, Subaru is just kind of like everybody else. They aren't really inspiring or quirky anymore.

Unfortunately, I don't think Subaru can go back this road they've started going down. If they go back to being quirky, they'll lose a lot of their newly acquired buyers.

[greg donovan]

part of the reason it seems like a lot of new imreza owners are d-bags is bacuse there are nearly 200,000 members over on NASIOC.

i would imagine that if we had 200,000 members here there would be plenty of d-bags here too.

[evolutionmovement]

If I can find an '84 hardtop that isn't rotted, I'm buying it. Those are seriously fun, tough, and cheap cars. I want to put an EJ22 in it and maybe make it rwd to make it my less attractive, but much cheaper substitute Giulia/2002/510 kind of thing. With the right detailing, I think they look pretty good, if not Alfa-level good. I never had a coupe - just a wagon and a sedan and I love the the lack of a B pillar. I only bought a Legacy because I couldn't find another 83/84 GL. I've had two early Datsun Zs and that was plenty, but I'd love another GL. It was more fun than the Z's too.