Build finally under way!!

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:35 pm

Man its been a long time since I have been here!!!

SO my build is finally going in a forward direction.

My heads are off to be ported/polished, and ceramic coated combustions chambers and exhaust ports. I am going with a set of DOHC heads from a 98 Legacy. I am going to have them machined to fit in an oil return from the turbo. I will post some flow numbers once they are done.

My block is the 22t punched out just a bit. I ordered pistons yesterday. I went with JE custom slugs with a final compression ratio of 8.5:1 with the stock 22t headgasket.

The turbo charger plans have changed and I am now looking at a vf22 instead of the vf29. Currently I have 550cc sti injectors, which I may have to have modified to flow more. (suggestions)

Exhaust will be ported and coated manifolds from an early STI. I am also thinking of going with the invadia crossover pipe that flows a bit better. Of course it will all exit the turbo from a coated stromung system

Engine management with be takencare of, at the moment, by a 95 wrx harness and hopefully we can snag an sti ECU for the time being. Down the road (hopefully by July) It will be run by an autronic plug and play unit.

SO hopefully this setup will be on the road againthe last week in march. If thats the case it will have been motionless for exactly 1 year.

Today we are going to see where we can lose some wait on the car. Lightweight bumper beams (of death and doom) are going on today.

Tell me what you think. I am guessing my piston and CR choice will strike alot of you all a litlle odd, and I would like to hear your comments. I have til monday to change my order for those pistons.

206er · Post by **206er** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:22 pm

ceramic coating to the combustion chambers and ports sounds cool, but is it worth eating a turbo when that stuff starts to come off? unless this is some crazy coating I havent heard about...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:45 am

I had my previous set of exhaust manifolds coated with no problems. I am using the same company that did my turbo last time. THe coating is still 100 % intact and actually on a wrx that my buddy just sold. It went through 2 cars, about 20,000 miles and still looked new. I am not too worried about it. I haven't found one, but you may be able to point out a case where this has actually happened.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:53 am

I just modded the Yellow STI 550cc injectors I have.

Idle is a bit ruff, but I have PLENTY OF FUEL!!!!!!!!!!

Runs pretty swell considering the stock ecu is expecting 270cc! And yes, I am still using the PP6.

Good luck!

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:24 pm

bmxpunk, what kind of hp numbers are you expecting to put out pre and post tune?

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:30 am

Um not exactly sure. I have moments where I get really power hungry, then like today i get sensible. I know there is a point where more power walks the ugly line of perfection and excess. I really want this car to be a great driver. In its last evolution, It was the stock motor with a td04 runnin 16psi(well till it tapered to 11 at 6000rpm). Great car, but it drove like an NA car, it was wierd. I spent countless midnight hours tearing up our mountain making myself and that car a more complete unit.

What I want most is a broad powerband and excellent response. However this may go against the use of the vf22 turbo, but hey the 22b Runs the vf23 stock.

I think it will be in the upper 200whp range maybe 300. BUt response is going to be the most important. That was my thinking with the slightly higher compression ratio for a little more off the bottom and hopefully it will cruise a little better. That is also why if it can be ported (heads, manifolds) I am having it done.

As for the ceramic coating, i am hoping the benefits are two-fold. I know many are leary of it, but i would like to think i put in a bit of research and saw many benefits from it , Both from my personal use and from things i have read. . First being reliability. WIth the pistons and chambers being coated, hopefully I can help contain cylinder temps and fight off preignition and detonation. Hopefully also, it will keep the entire engine a little cooler as well as help lower coolant and oil temps, even if just abit. (also plan to add an oil cooler) Having had all of my exhaust and turbo coated last time it ran, I saw a few people actually grab (for who knows why in the first place) My turbo like 15 minutes after it had been running. While it wasn't exactly chilled, it didn't burn them like they probably deserved. THe other benefit may be a slight amount of power. I read an example of an untuned NA miata gaining about 5hp on a dyno just with the addition of ceramic coated chambers and exhaust(header to tips), and again on an NA mustang that got about 8 hp just from the piston crown and Chamber being coated

SO really making a complete car is more important than a dyno number. I have already gone through and replaced nearly every bushing and such to help make the car handle, but again this time I am going through again to fine tune some things for again, a complete car.

Here is a complete kinda afterthought, but besides the exhaust and displacement, what else the sound of a motor. I was watching videos of Patrick Richard's car and it sounds beautiful.

shemoves · Post by **shemoves** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:55 pm

Technically, a vf22 can out-power stock STi injectors. The need for larger injectors really depends on how much boost/power you want, and what type of fuel you are going to use.
DeatschWerks makes very high quality modded injectors. They have 650 and 740 CC models, and I think they even have a trade-for-credit program. Email them about that.

http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/pro ... cts_id=130

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:25 pm

thanks. I have been looking for that company. SOmeone else mentioned them once.

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:05 pm

I'm interested in the dyno numbers after she's tuned. Keep us posted.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:08 pm

Ok so the pistons showed up last night. They look pretty sweet. The machine shop has them still to check tolerances, but as soon as I get them I will post some pics.

Since the last time I posted I have also acquired:
95 Sti-RA ECu (harness coming anyday)
ARP Head studs
Aluminum front control arms
Ver 5 bumper
BPM Crossoverpipe (sexy)

Stil need:
-Uppipe (recommendations? that ROcket Rally that splinter has looks good)
-INtake manifold from early jdm turbo car
-Front rotors to fit Legacy turbo calipers
-Clutch

I cant freeking wait its been 14months!!!

BB · Post by BB » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:43 am

Whats so odd about 8.5:1??? I think thats exactly what I'd run if I had the cash for a proper set of pistons.

BB

boro · Post by **boro** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:45 pm

shemoves wrote:Technically, a vf22 can out-power stock STi injectors. The need for larger injectors really depends on how much boost/power you want, and what type of fuel you are going to use.
DeatschWerks makes very high quality modded injectors. They have 650 and 740 CC models, and I think they even have a trade-for-credit program. Email them about that.

http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/pro ... cts_id=130

A friend of mine runs the DeatschWerks 740's on his SR20'd Nissan 240. It idles a little rough but he makes great AFR's! Plenty of fuel. He runs around 18 psi daily and peaks at 22. That's on a stock SR20 turbo. With those injectors and the AEM EMS he is set up for a much larger unit.

206er · Post by **206er** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:23 am

bmxpunk I'd like a ride in this beast after you get done.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:12 am

The VF22 is the worst turbo ever built. Period. Slow spool, never make more than 300whp, and they never last.

Worst turbo ever. VF34 will make more power, more reliabily than the VF22.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:32 am

206er- You got it.

Bac5.2- Its what was available and sounded good at the time. Where as the everything is not together yet I still have time to change it and I am still contemplating it. I am also considering going the twinscroll route.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:06 am

Well I got some aluminum front control arms thron on the car over the weekend and completed my urathane bushings in the rear for the control arms and trailing arms.

I also fitted a front mount intercooler to the car.

Everything for my lower end is here. We clearanced my conecting rods to the crankshaft and here is what we got:

Spec is .0010"-.0021"
mine were:
#1 - .0017"
#2 - .0016"
#3 - .0015"
#4 - .0014"

That sound right to everyone?

I am going to check the main bearings tomorrow night and the ring endgap the night after. By thursday I should have a built short block! I will include pics of my pistons and such this week.

Also I have finally decided that I am going to go with a twin scroll Turbo setup so if anyone has parts to one that they don't want...lets talk

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:09 am

OK since my only other form of transport rightnow is a Honda CT trail 90 motorcyle.... My build absolutely has to be done by the time it snows. I Finally settled son some things sinceI last posted.

First, The wiring is almost done, after about 25 hours into it(spread out over oh 4 months...

SO the heads just need to get here. Any suggestions on INtercooler? Like I said i plan to use the vf37 at stock boost for now ( the RA ecu) though I do have the apexi F-con to tune it some...at least till i can afford the autronic.

shemoves · Post by **shemoves** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:42 pm

Put on the intercooler that best suits your end goal.

Arctic Assassian · Post by **Arctic Assassian** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:04 am

The only thing I can see a frontmount good for is rally and road racing. If you just plan on having a nice complete car that drives well and looks low key, a front mount is not the best choice. You lose that bottom end oomph that you talked about a few months ago, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Especially if you plan on autocross, or rally cross, or drag even, you will do best with a top mount with a splitter. I don't even know if you are into racing, I know I really like to just drive; however, I can't see a useful purpose of a front mount on a subaru, there is too much piping to make it worth the extra cooling, unless this thing will be doing its fair share of time running high. I really like the concept, and I imagine the wiring has been the hardest part. I can't wait to see the start-up vid.
peace
-Adam

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:24 pm

^BS. If you know what you are doing and can fab a little piping, its not that long. Kits that people buy have a retarded amount of piping because they don't reclock the turbo and go around the back of the motor twice. As far as losing low end, also BS. Off boost drivability often improves due to less restriction. Also, spool-up is more affected by your wastegate control architecture than how much piping you have.

FMICs can be stealthy as well. A light touch of flat black Krylon can work wonders, and has a negligible effect on efficiency.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:50 am

THe wiring has been tough. THough I think from what I have heard, the 95 1.8 impreza is one of the easier to wire up.

THe 1.8 harness actually has 2 plugs to where you can the engine harness and take it out of the car to strip. I then spliced the ej20g harness to those plugs and plugged them in. Ok I have 2 wires left. Oh yeah and on the 1.8 harness, there are 2 wires that go from the ecu to these connectors, then they don't go anywhere from there.

If I do keep the front mount, for sure i am painting it black. THe only draw back to a top mount that I can see is going to be from my use of an Ej20G (actually its an ej20h) manifold so finding a bigger one to fit between the throttle body and Fire wall will be kinda tough.

I planned to built the shortblock this weekend, but the machine shop who bored it went a little overboard when gapping the oil rings so I am waiting for a new set to arrive.

I did get my new oil pan and some water piping this week.

I am also wondering for reliablity purposes, is it worth it to get an oil cooler? If it is yes will the current oem sti(or oem Legacy turbo for that matter) be sufficient or should I go with something that has its own seperate core? I may be overthinking this but thats putting alot up front before the radiator.

Speaking of radiators... I plan to upgrade but don't know exactly which one to get. Its getting colder here so I think I can make the 1.8 Radiator work for winter. Any recommendations? I have been checking out the Visteon radiator complete with pushing fans.

Arctic Assassian · Post by **Arctic Assassian** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:55 pm

Sorry dan. An excess of availible air works well in an N/A motor, but a frontmount creates more space to be filled by the compressor after the BPV vents, therefore, lag. I never said anything about spool, I mentioned bottom end power, which lacks on FMIC cars that don't have massive turbos. I have personally felt the difference in a few subarus that lost power because of a frontmount. Punk here doesn't have a huge turbo, and I'm willing to bet hes not gonna reclock it, so eat your words, and admit that in THIS aplication, I am right.

92ss satinsvoice · Post by **92ss satinsvoice** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:42 am

if hes trying to get quit a bit of power out of his car, like say close to 300 at the crank a top mount will be your down fall. plus you cant really run more then 18psi on a top mount because they get really insufficient and heat soak.

i built my intercooler pipes its not that hard. a front mount is a great place to start building proper performance. plus the engine bay of our cars dont have alot of room for a big top mount. my car still has great low end power. you would be surprised how much power can be gained from a front mount.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:48 pm

Do you have a picture of your piping? I would be super intereested to see how you did it

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:02 pm

I have a decent sized FMIC (31"x12"x3") on the LSS & even with the VF11 there was no additional Lag vs. no intercooler.

I have a WRX TMIC on my OBS-T & it sucks.
It works OK as long as the car is in motion, but as soon as you stop (Traffic, park for 10 minutes...) intake temps climb to 120-130* in the summer (85-90*ambient temps).

If anything I think a FMIC is more useful to stabilize intake temps in stop & go situations vs. a TMIC, as it will not get heatsoaked by the engine/exhaust/turbo which all sit under a TMIC.

My experiance with the LSS FMIC has changed my mind on the Subaru/Lag thought & the OBS-T will be getting the same kit as the LSS as soon as I have the time to install it.

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A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Build finally under way!!

Build finally under way!!