Hi Larry.
Thanks for your reply.
I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your earlier
model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of the same
size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads are
better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better improvements
(spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on items".
By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the primary
things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the heads will
ever be.
Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp, depending on
the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is DEFINITELY an
intercooler though!
I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
Kind Regards
Ben
MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
==================== my reply to Bens' reply follows==================
Ben my friend, thank you so much for sticking with us (BC-BF LegacyWorks
list) on this head swap subject. You're giving us good feedback and info.
But I gotta square you on the deal with our USA spec Turbo Legacy, cause
you're still missing something. You still think we're talking about an
engine swap. Check this out Ben. From 1991 thru 1994, there was a true
Subaru factory turbo option package for the Legacy sold in the US as the
Legacy "Sport Sedan" and the Legacy "Touring Wagon LE" (Limited Edition).
There were about 1400 sold for the US market over the entire four year US
production run. Most of the Sport Sedans had a special beefier 5 speed
manual tranny and most of the Touring Wagons had the bigger stronger 4 speed
automatic used in the SVX with a stand alone transmission control unit (TCU)
which is independent of the ECU. The BC-BF engine was not the normally
aspirated 2.2 engine with a turbo hung on the outside. It was a separate
uniquely designed engine intended for turbo application from the ground up.
It corresponds to the 2.0 Liberty turbo engine you had during the same
period, only 10% larger, and I believe was the same basic engine used in the
2.2 liter 22B, complete with closed deck, fancy pistons, oil squirters,
pressurized oil and water lines to turbo, bigger radiator, special thermal
cycle turbo water cooling, the whole shit. I think the confusion arises from
the fact that you guys down under also had a 2.2 engine during the same time
but none were factory turbocharged, only the 2.0 was. It has a different
ECU, suspension, exhaust, brakes, transmission, tire size, engine internals,
etc. It is a different animal than the 2.2 normally aspirated car, it is a
complete factory turbo automobile. It was the engine and car combo used by
Chad DeMarco in his successful World Rally Championship campaign during the
early 90's. However, the car as sold in the US did not have an intercooler.
The car you call the "early" Liberty, with the 2.0 turbo had the air-to-water
intercooler I want, and yes the serious Turbo Legacy owners here adapt
whatever intercooler they can make work, both air-to-air or air-to-water and
over the engine or in front of the engine. But the reason the head swap
topic is hot right now is because some of these guys have already done most
of the bolt on stuff and want more. Right now the brand spanking new US
version 2.0 liter WRX turbo (finally) is the new king of the hill and the
small exclusive 2.2 Turbo Legacy crowd is curious about head swapping either
the heads used in the newer 2.5 Imprezzas, Outbacks, and Legacys or the new
(to our US market) 2.0 WRX which, by the way has the top mounted cooler. We
aren't talking about swapping engines because we (most of us) think our
Legacy factory turbo engine is still the biggest and best. A couple of
knowledgeable sources have even said the heads on the 2.2 Turbo engine are
still the best or have the best potential. Log onto
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks, join up, and check us out.
Thanx again. Larry Witherspoon
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
more head swap scoop from down under
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
-
Dave C
more head swap scoop from down under
Nice.
Actually, only about 3000 of the ~15,000 Sport Sedans were 5MT (per
Matt S). All the ~3000 Touring Wagons were 4EAT.
The EJ22T is more similar to the EJ20-RA than any other engine, save
for the stuff in the heads and displacement. Closed deck, oil
sprayers and all that make it much more than a conversion, but you
already know that.
He's right though, get an IC, Downpipe, exhaust and max the boost
before even messing with the heads.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., ssspoon@a... wrote:
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINITELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> ==================== my reply to Bens' reply
follows==================
>
> Ben my friend, thank you so much for sticking with us (BC-BF
LegacyWorks
> list) on this head swap subject. You're giving us good feedback
and info.
> But I gotta square you on the deal with our USA spec Turbo Legacy,
cause
> you're still missing something. You still think we're talking
about an
> engine swap. Check this out Ben. From 1991 thru 1994, there was a
true
> Subaru factory turbo option package for the Legacy sold in the US
as the
> Legacy "Sport Sedan" and the Legacy "Touring Wagon LE" (Limited
Edition).
> There were about 1400 sold for the US market over the entire four
year US
> production run. Most of the Sport Sedans had a special beefier 5
speed
> manual tranny and most of the Touring Wagons had the bigger
stronger 4 speed
> automatic used in the SVX with a stand alone transmission control
unit (TCU)
> which is independent of the ECU. The BC-BF engine was not the
normally
> aspirated 2.2 engine with a turbo hung on the outside. It was a
separate
> uniquely designed engine intended for turbo application from the
ground up.
> It corresponds to the 2.0 Liberty turbo engine you had during the
same
> period, only 10% larger, and I believe was the same basic engine
used in the
> 2.2 liter 22B, complete with closed deck, fancy pistons, oil
squirters,
> pressurized oil and water lines to turbo, bigger radiator, special
thermal
> cycle turbo water cooling, the whole shit. I think the confusion
arises from
> the fact that you guys down under also had a 2.2 engine during the
same time
> but none were factory turbocharged, only the 2.0 was. It has a
different
> ECU, suspension, exhaust, brakes, transmission, tire size, engine
internals,
> etc. It is a different animal than the 2.2 normally aspirated car,
it is a
> complete factory turbo automobile. It was the engine and car combo
used by
> Chad DeMarco in his successful World Rally Championship campaign
during the
> early 90's. However, the car as sold in the US did not have an
intercooler.
> The car you call the "early" Liberty, with the 2.0 turbo had the
air-to-water
> intercooler I want, and yes the serious Turbo Legacy owners here
adapt
> whatever intercooler they can make work, both air-to-air or air-to-
water and
> over the engine or in front of the engine. But the reason the head
swap
> topic is hot right now is because some of these guys have already
done most
> of the bolt on stuff and want more. Right now the brand spanking
new US
> version 2.0 liter WRX turbo (finally) is the new king of the hill
and the
> small exclusive 2.2 Turbo Legacy crowd is curious about head
swapping either
> the heads used in the newer 2.5 Imprezzas, Outbacks, and Legacys or
the new
> (to our US market) 2.0 WRX which, by the way has the top mounted
cooler. We
> aren't talking about swapping engines because we (most of us) think
our
> Legacy factory turbo engine is still the biggest and best. A
couple of
> knowledgeable sources have even said the heads on the 2.2 Turbo
engine are
> still the best or have the best potential. Log onto
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks, join up, and check
us out.
> Thanx again. Larry Witherspoon
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINATELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ssspoon@a... [mailto:Ssspoon@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2001 38
> To: Ben@m...
> Subject: Re: swapping heads thanx
>
>
> Hi Ben,
> Thanx a bunch for your reply to our inquiry. I call a member of
our Turbo
> Legacy (Liberty) list, Bill Robinson, Wild Bill because he has so
much radar
>
> and laser detection and police frequency scanning equipment on his
car. Our
>
> US version 1991 - 1994 Turbo Legacy is the 2.2 liter counterpart to
your
> "early" 2.0 Turbo Liberty with all the good factory turbo
internals. The
> main differences are the lack of a factory intercooler and lower
boost which
>
> is waste gate limited to 8.7 psi. A boost controller seems to be
good for
> about 12 or 13 pounds before the ECU gets upset, so the basic
engine is
> probably as good a place as any to start from. However one of the
main
> topics of discussion right now is the viability of swapping the old
early
> 1990's design 2.2 heads for something Y2K, whether it's from one of
the new
> 2.5 engines or one of the 2.0 WRX's because it seems like the head
is where
> the differences in the 1990's vs 2000's turbos mainly reside. One
viewpoint
>
> is the new 2.5 heads flow better in stock form than the old 2.2
heads will
> after a good workover. An opposing viewpoint says the old 2.2 head
is a
> better design and can be made to flow better than the new 2.0 or
2.5. But
> we
> have had very little feedback comparing the newer 2.0 heads with
either so
> we
> are scrounging for any and all input. Thanx again for your time.
> Larry Witherspoon, Torrance (Los Angeles), California
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Actually, only about 3000 of the ~15,000 Sport Sedans were 5MT (per
Matt S). All the ~3000 Touring Wagons were 4EAT.
The EJ22T is more similar to the EJ20-RA than any other engine, save
for the stuff in the heads and displacement. Closed deck, oil
sprayers and all that make it much more than a conversion, but you
already know that.
He's right though, get an IC, Downpipe, exhaust and max the boost
before even messing with the heads.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., ssspoon@a... wrote:
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINITELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> ==================== my reply to Bens' reply
follows==================
>
> Ben my friend, thank you so much for sticking with us (BC-BF
LegacyWorks
> list) on this head swap subject. You're giving us good feedback
and info.
> But I gotta square you on the deal with our USA spec Turbo Legacy,
cause
> you're still missing something. You still think we're talking
about an
> engine swap. Check this out Ben. From 1991 thru 1994, there was a
true
> Subaru factory turbo option package for the Legacy sold in the US
as the
> Legacy "Sport Sedan" and the Legacy "Touring Wagon LE" (Limited
Edition).
> There were about 1400 sold for the US market over the entire four
year US
> production run. Most of the Sport Sedans had a special beefier 5
speed
> manual tranny and most of the Touring Wagons had the bigger
stronger 4 speed
> automatic used in the SVX with a stand alone transmission control
unit (TCU)
> which is independent of the ECU. The BC-BF engine was not the
normally
> aspirated 2.2 engine with a turbo hung on the outside. It was a
separate
> uniquely designed engine intended for turbo application from the
ground up.
> It corresponds to the 2.0 Liberty turbo engine you had during the
same
> period, only 10% larger, and I believe was the same basic engine
used in the
> 2.2 liter 22B, complete with closed deck, fancy pistons, oil
squirters,
> pressurized oil and water lines to turbo, bigger radiator, special
thermal
> cycle turbo water cooling, the whole shit. I think the confusion
arises from
> the fact that you guys down under also had a 2.2 engine during the
same time
> but none were factory turbocharged, only the 2.0 was. It has a
different
> ECU, suspension, exhaust, brakes, transmission, tire size, engine
internals,
> etc. It is a different animal than the 2.2 normally aspirated car,
it is a
> complete factory turbo automobile. It was the engine and car combo
used by
> Chad DeMarco in his successful World Rally Championship campaign
during the
> early 90's. However, the car as sold in the US did not have an
intercooler.
> The car you call the "early" Liberty, with the 2.0 turbo had the
air-to-water
> intercooler I want, and yes the serious Turbo Legacy owners here
adapt
> whatever intercooler they can make work, both air-to-air or air-to-
water and
> over the engine or in front of the engine. But the reason the head
swap
> topic is hot right now is because some of these guys have already
done most
> of the bolt on stuff and want more. Right now the brand spanking
new US
> version 2.0 liter WRX turbo (finally) is the new king of the hill
and the
> small exclusive 2.2 Turbo Legacy crowd is curious about head
swapping either
> the heads used in the newer 2.5 Imprezzas, Outbacks, and Legacys or
the new
> (to our US market) 2.0 WRX which, by the way has the top mounted
cooler. We
> aren't talking about swapping engines because we (most of us) think
our
> Legacy factory turbo engine is still the biggest and best. A
couple of
> knowledgeable sources have even said the heads on the 2.2 Turbo
engine are
> still the best or have the best potential. Log onto
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks, join up, and check
us out.
> Thanx again. Larry Witherspoon
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINATELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ssspoon@a... [mailto:Ssspoon@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2001 38
> To: Ben@m...
> Subject: Re: swapping heads thanx
>
>
> Hi Ben,
> Thanx a bunch for your reply to our inquiry. I call a member of
our Turbo
> Legacy (Liberty) list, Bill Robinson, Wild Bill because he has so
much radar
>
> and laser detection and police frequency scanning equipment on his
car. Our
>
> US version 1991 - 1994 Turbo Legacy is the 2.2 liter counterpart to
your
> "early" 2.0 Turbo Liberty with all the good factory turbo
internals. The
> main differences are the lack of a factory intercooler and lower
boost which
>
> is waste gate limited to 8.7 psi. A boost controller seems to be
good for
> about 12 or 13 pounds before the ECU gets upset, so the basic
engine is
> probably as good a place as any to start from. However one of the
main
> topics of discussion right now is the viability of swapping the old
early
> 1990's design 2.2 heads for something Y2K, whether it's from one of
the new
> 2.5 engines or one of the 2.0 WRX's because it seems like the head
is where
> the differences in the 1990's vs 2000's turbos mainly reside. One
viewpoint
>
> is the new 2.5 heads flow better in stock form than the old 2.2
heads will
> after a good workover. An opposing viewpoint says the old 2.2 head
is a
> better design and can be made to flow better than the new 2.0 or
2.5. But
> we
> have had very little feedback comparing the newer 2.0 heads with
either so
> we
> are scrounging for any and all input. Thanx again for your time.
> Larry Witherspoon, Torrance (Los Angeles), California
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
-
Ross
more head swap scoop from down under
Dave, do you know if my engine (2.0L Liberty RS intercooled turbo, Australian spec), has the oil squirters? Apparently, my engine is not the RS "RA" which had 20 more horses.
Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave <mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com> C
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 6 April 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Fwd: more head swap scoop from down under
Nice.
Actually, only about 3000 of the ~15,000 Sport Sedans were 5MT (per
Matt S). All the ~3000 Touring Wagons were 4EAT.
The EJ22T is more similar to the EJ20-RA than any other engine, save
for the stuff in the heads and displacement. Closed deck, oil
sprayers and all that make it much more than a conversion, but you
already know that.
He's right though, get an IC, Downpipe, exhaust and max the boost
before even messing with the heads.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., ssspoon@a... wrote:
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINITELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> ==================== my reply to Bens' reply
follows==================
>
> Ben my friend, thank you so much for sticking with us (BC-BF
LegacyWorks
> list) on this head swap subject. You're giving us good feedback
and info.
> But I gotta square you on the deal with our USA spec Turbo Legacy,
cause
> you're still missing something. You still think we're talking
about an
> engine swap. Check this out Ben. From 1991 thru 1994, there was a
true
> Subaru factory turbo option package for the Legacy sold in the US
as the
> Legacy "Sport Sedan" and the Legacy "Touring Wagon LE" (Limited
Edition).
> There were about 1400 sold for the US market over the entire four
year US
> production run. Most of the Sport Sedans had a special beefier 5
speed
> manual tranny and most of the Touring Wagons had the bigger
stronger 4 speed
> automatic used in the SVX with a stand alone transmission control
unit (TCU)
> which is independent of the ECU. The BC-BF engine was not the
normally
> aspirated 2.2 engine with a turbo hung on the outside. It was a
separate
> uniquely designed engine intended for turbo application from the
ground up.
> It corresponds to the 2.0 Liberty turbo engine you had during the
same
> period, only 10% larger, and I believe was the same basic engine
used in the
> 2.2 liter 22B, complete with closed deck, fancy pistons, oil
squirters,
> pressurized oil and water lines to turbo, bigger radiator, special
thermal
> cycle turbo water cooling, the whole shit. I think the confusion
arises from
> the fact that you guys down under also had a 2.2 engine during the
same time
> but none were factory turbocharged, only the 2.0 was. It has a
different
> ECU, suspension, exhaust, brakes, transmission, tire size, engine
internals,
> etc. It is a different animal than the 2.2 normally aspirated car,
it is a
> complete factory turbo automobile. It was the engine and car combo
used by
> Chad DeMarco in his successful World Rally Championship campaign
during the
> early 90's. However, the car as sold in the US did not have an
intercooler.
> The car you call the "early" Liberty, with the 2.0 turbo had the
air-to-water
> intercooler I want, and yes the serious Turbo Legacy owners here
adapt
> whatever intercooler they can make work, both air-to-air or air-to-
water and
> over the engine or in front of the engine. But the reason the head
swap
> topic is hot right now is because some of these guys have already
done most
> of the bolt on stuff and want more. Right now the brand spanking
new US
> version 2.0 liter WRX turbo (finally) is the new king of the hill
and the
> small exclusive 2.2 Turbo Legacy crowd is curious about head
swapping either
> the heads used in the newer 2.5 Imprezzas, Outbacks, and Legacys or
the new
> (to our US market) 2.0 WRX which, by the way has the top mounted
cooler. We
> aren't talking about swapping engines because we (most of us) think
our
> Legacy factory turbo engine is still the biggest and best. A
couple of
> knowledgeable sources have even said the heads on the 2.2 Turbo
engine are
> still the best or have the best potential. Log onto
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks, join up, and check
us out.
> Thanx again. Larry Witherspoon
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINATELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ssspoon@a... [mailto:Ssspoon@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2001 38
> To: Ben@m...
> Subject: Re: swapping heads thanx
>
>
> Hi Ben,
> Thanx a bunch for your reply to our inquiry. I call a member of
our Turbo
> Legacy (Liberty) list, Bill Robinson, Wild Bill because he has so
much radar
>
> and laser detection and police frequency scanning equipment on his
car. Our
>
> US version 1991 - 1994 Turbo Legacy is the 2.2 liter counterpart to
your
> "early" 2.0 Turbo Liberty with all the good factory turbo
internals. The
> main differences are the lack of a factory intercooler and lower
boost which
>
> is waste gate limited to 8.7 psi. A boost controller seems to be
good for
> about 12 or 13 pounds before the ECU gets upset, so the basic
engine is
> probably as good a place as any to start from. However one of the
main
> topics of discussion right now is the viability of swapping the old
early
> 1990's design 2.2 heads for something Y2K, whether it's from one of
the new
> 2.5 engines or one of the 2.0 WRX's because it seems like the head
is where
> the differences in the 1990's vs 2000's turbos mainly reside. One
viewpoint
>
> is the new 2.5 heads flow better in stock form than the old 2.2
heads will
> after a good workover. An opposing viewpoint says the old 2.2 head
is a
> better design and can be made to flow better than the new 2.0 or
2.5. But
> we
> have had very little feedback comparing the newer 2.0 heads with
either so
> we
> are scrounging for any and all input. Thanx again for your time.
> Larry Witherspoon, Torrance (Los Angeles), California
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Ross
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave <mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com> C
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 6 April 2001 11:33 PM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Fwd: more head swap scoop from down under
Nice.
Actually, only about 3000 of the ~15,000 Sport Sedans were 5MT (per
Matt S). All the ~3000 Touring Wagons were 4EAT.
The EJ22T is more similar to the EJ20-RA than any other engine, save
for the stuff in the heads and displacement. Closed deck, oil
sprayers and all that make it much more than a conversion, but you
already know that.
He's right though, get an IC, Downpipe, exhaust and max the boost
before even messing with the heads.
--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., ssspoon@a... wrote:
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINITELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> ==================== my reply to Bens' reply
follows==================
>
> Ben my friend, thank you so much for sticking with us (BC-BF
LegacyWorks
> list) on this head swap subject. You're giving us good feedback
and info.
> But I gotta square you on the deal with our USA spec Turbo Legacy,
cause
> you're still missing something. You still think we're talking
about an
> engine swap. Check this out Ben. From 1991 thru 1994, there was a
true
> Subaru factory turbo option package for the Legacy sold in the US
as the
> Legacy "Sport Sedan" and the Legacy "Touring Wagon LE" (Limited
Edition).
> There were about 1400 sold for the US market over the entire four
year US
> production run. Most of the Sport Sedans had a special beefier 5
speed
> manual tranny and most of the Touring Wagons had the bigger
stronger 4 speed
> automatic used in the SVX with a stand alone transmission control
unit (TCU)
> which is independent of the ECU. The BC-BF engine was not the
normally
> aspirated 2.2 engine with a turbo hung on the outside. It was a
separate
> uniquely designed engine intended for turbo application from the
ground up.
> It corresponds to the 2.0 Liberty turbo engine you had during the
same
> period, only 10% larger, and I believe was the same basic engine
used in the
> 2.2 liter 22B, complete with closed deck, fancy pistons, oil
squirters,
> pressurized oil and water lines to turbo, bigger radiator, special
thermal
> cycle turbo water cooling, the whole shit. I think the confusion
arises from
> the fact that you guys down under also had a 2.2 engine during the
same time
> but none were factory turbocharged, only the 2.0 was. It has a
different
> ECU, suspension, exhaust, brakes, transmission, tire size, engine
internals,
> etc. It is a different animal than the 2.2 normally aspirated car,
it is a
> complete factory turbo automobile. It was the engine and car combo
used by
> Chad DeMarco in his successful World Rally Championship campaign
during the
> early 90's. However, the car as sold in the US did not have an
intercooler.
> The car you call the "early" Liberty, with the 2.0 turbo had the
air-to-water
> intercooler I want, and yes the serious Turbo Legacy owners here
adapt
> whatever intercooler they can make work, both air-to-air or air-to-
water and
> over the engine or in front of the engine. But the reason the head
swap
> topic is hot right now is because some of these guys have already
done most
> of the bolt on stuff and want more. Right now the brand spanking
new US
> version 2.0 liter WRX turbo (finally) is the new king of the hill
and the
> small exclusive 2.2 Turbo Legacy crowd is curious about head
swapping either
> the heads used in the newer 2.5 Imprezzas, Outbacks, and Legacys or
the new
> (to our US market) 2.0 WRX which, by the way has the top mounted
cooler. We
> aren't talking about swapping engines because we (most of us) think
our
> Legacy factory turbo engine is still the biggest and best. A
couple of
> knowledgeable sources have even said the heads on the 2.2 Turbo
engine are
> still the best or have the best potential. Log onto
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BC-BFLegacyWorks, join up, and check
us out.
> Thanx again. Larry Witherspoon
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am assuming that the 2.2L engine that you have fitted to your
earlier
> model Legacy is very similar to the naturally aspirated engine of
the same
> size that we had fitted as another option to a lower spec model
> Legacy/Liberty of the same vintage (2212cc Quad Cam 16V).
>
> If this is the case, then you can all stop arguing over which heads
are
> better. It is all irrelevant when you can get so much better
improvements
> (spending less money in the process) from looking at the "bolt on
items".
> By this I mean exhaust, intake, intercooler and ECU. These are the
primary
> things to look at as they all are far more restrictive than the
heads will
> ever be.
>
> Get these sorted and you will be well on your way to 280-300hp,
depending on
> the strength of your versions engine internals. First up is
DEFINATELY an
> intercooler though!
>
> I hope this helps and look forward to your reply.
>
> Kind Regards
> Ben
> MRT Performance "We Rally, You Win !"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ssspoon@a... [mailto:Ssspoon@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2001 38
> To: Ben@m...
> Subject: Re: swapping heads thanx
>
>
> Hi Ben,
> Thanx a bunch for your reply to our inquiry. I call a member of
our Turbo
> Legacy (Liberty) list, Bill Robinson, Wild Bill because he has so
much radar
>
> and laser detection and police frequency scanning equipment on his
car. Our
>
> US version 1991 - 1994 Turbo Legacy is the 2.2 liter counterpart to
your
> "early" 2.0 Turbo Liberty with all the good factory turbo
internals. The
> main differences are the lack of a factory intercooler and lower
boost which
>
> is waste gate limited to 8.7 psi. A boost controller seems to be
good for
> about 12 or 13 pounds before the ECU gets upset, so the basic
engine is
> probably as good a place as any to start from. However one of the
main
> topics of discussion right now is the viability of swapping the old
early
> 1990's design 2.2 heads for something Y2K, whether it's from one of
the new
> 2.5 engines or one of the 2.0 WRX's because it seems like the head
is where
> the differences in the 1990's vs 2000's turbos mainly reside. One
viewpoint
>
> is the new 2.5 heads flow better in stock form than the old 2.2
heads will
> after a good workover. An opposing viewpoint says the old 2.2 head
is a
> better design and can be made to flow better than the new 2.0 or
2.5. But
> we
> have had very little feedback comparing the newer 2.0 heads with
either so
> we
> are scrounging for any and all input. Thanx again for your time.
> Larry Witherspoon, Torrance (Los Angeles), California
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