PC Gurus unite!! To upgrade or not to upgrade??

[TheSubaruJunkie]

So I have a dilemma... Ive been getting alot of great games lately. C&C3, Crysis, MS Flight Sim X. These games are resource hogs, and love fast computers. And I would like to play them the way they were meant to be played (without running 800x600 and turning shaders off).

Now, my PC isnt slow by all means, but with todays technology it just cant keep up anymore. Im affraid my video card is to blame the most, and i'll get into that later. But right now Im faced with two decisions.... and both of them lead to the same conclusion: Building a new PC.

There are two ways to go about it, but 1st let me explain what my current PC is running.

AMD64 3000+, 939 pin, 1.8GHz @ 400mhz FSB
2GB Dual Channel DDR (400mhz)
80gig SATA 150 HDD
Nvidia GeForce 7300GS 256mb

I have been doing alot of reading lately, and some shopping around. The new Intel Core 2 Duo chips are unbeatable. And the E6500+ offer 4MB of L2 Cache, which is pretty amazing. So here is what Ive put on my list for my next PC

Intel E6750, 2.66GHz @ 1333mhz FSB
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 (800mhz)
Same 80GB Im using now.
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS

Now here's where my dilemma lies. I dont have $600 to drop right now for a new PC. However I can buy bits and pieces and end up with a new PC eventially. I have two options that amount to about the same. As I said earlier my videocard is CRAP. The GS is the lowest line of GeForce chips, but it was cheap and better than what I had before. The new 8800 video cards are hot shat and the GTS & GTX are blowing away benchmarks on the games I want to run. I can get one, and run it now. My Motherboard has PCI-ex and its about a $250-$300 upgrade. Im confident that alone will boost my performance substantially.

However, some may remember from a previous post of mine that Ive recently developed a problem with my Motherboard where it is eating CMOS batteries left and right. A sign of the upcomming failure of my motherboard, which is leaning me toward option #2. Buying a new MB & CPU, use my crappy video card until I can afford the 8800.

I priced it out, and right now I can get the E6750 & a very good MSI board, and 2gigs of DDR2 for a total of $310. Thats all I need to upgrade my PC and I will still be using my current HDD and my craptastic video card.

The real question here is: Is it better to have a slow PC with a fast video card?? Or a fast PC with a slow Video Card??

Thoughts? Ideas?
-Brian

[DLC]

Look at benchmarks for the slower E4400 versus the E65 and E6750 series. You can save a LOT of money, put it towards the video card, which really needs to be fast, and you're sacrificing little.

I just "upgraded" from an Opteron 170 (dual core 1mb per cache) and 2GB DDR 400 with a 7600 GT PCI-E to an E2140, Intel DG35JO and 2GB of DDR2-800 with onboard video.

I can put in any Core2, even the newest 1333MHz FSB chips, when/if I feel like PC gaming is worth it. Otherwise, I have a fast PC that sips power.

Another option you have is to find a cheap X2 AMD chip, which will help a LOT, and as much video card as you can afford.

Console gaming just looks more and more like the way to go when you have to spend $1800 in video cards alone to run Crysis in Very High graphics mode:

http://www.gemaga.com/2007/12/12/over-1 ... -very-high

As you can see from this benchmark picture, it barely even gets 37.9 FPS with this insane setup. How many years is it going to take consumer hardware before they can run Crysis the way it was mean to be run and at 60 FPS?

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Thanks DLC. I am sold on the 4mb cache and 1333mhz FSB. I dont think the E4400 runs at 1333. other than gaming, i use my PC for alot of video editing.

Your right, I could get the dual core AMD fairly cheap, but im having motherboard problems. I know there is a short somewhere draining my CMOS battery and certain failure is imminent.

console gaming just doesnt do it for me. My roomates xbox 360 is cool and all... but, im a PC guy at heart.

[DLC]

OK, video editing will really benefit from the big cache and FSB.

Time to start looking at recent benchmarks with the 8600 and 8800 cards. I know that nvidia just revamped their lineup and is using a finer process on some of the cards, but they're hard to find in stock.

http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/13771

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Thanks for that DLC. That only makes it an easier decision to buy the mobo/CPU now and wait for the video card. Once the 9 series is released, the 8800 should drop substantially.

Ive been looking at benchmarks and I really like what I saw with the 8800 GTS and GTX. Not so thrilled with the 8600's, but for the price its not a bad choice. I just wanna be able to turn AA 4x on and shaders and not have to worry anymore.

[PhyrraM]

If you want to play the games 'Right Now' grab an x2 chip from Ebay and a new vid card.

In a few weeks (or when your ready) resell the x2 chip at the same price you paid for it and get your Intel combo.

If you can chill for a bit on the games, your plan sounds good. The 45nm CPUs should be out by the end of January.

Socket 939 x2 chips have pretty much bottomed out for now. I would grab a 4400+ and you might even make a few bucks on it.

I just upgraded my main PC from 4400+ x2 (OCed to FX 60 speeds) and 6800GTs in SLI to a QX6600 and a single 8800GTS 640meg. The difference is noticeable, but not ground breaking as I thought it would be.

[Fkyx]

DLC has the right idea. Grab the cpu/mobo combination. If you're ballsy, drop down to say, an E6420, which also has the 4mb cache but a 1066mhz FSB, and buy a decent Gigabyte motherboard (DS3 is a great one, I use it) and overclock. With an aftermarket cooler, I've overclocked from 2.13ghz to 3.6ghz with temps under 30C. This, in the end, saved me around one and a half hundred dollars, aftermarket cooler not included.

If you aren't too computer savvy, or just don't want to overclock, the E6750 looks like a good option. Make sure the motherboard supports 1333mhz FSB, though. I know my Gigabyte 965P DS3 Rev3.3 does for sure.

Also keep in mind that the power requirements between a 7300GS and an 8800GTS are quite large. And this doesn't take into account for the change from an AMD64 to a C2D. Before you can run an 8800GTS, you'll probably end up having to purchase a new power supply.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

My current power supply is 450watts. I hope its enough for now. The motherboard Im looking at getting is the MSI P35 Neo. From what Ive been reading the P35 chipset is the way to go.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.a ... 6813130128

Only downfall is no FireWire support, but I can get a card fairly cheap I imagine.

Im not a newb, but I dont really like overclocking. Ive done it with all my Systems, and it always reduces reliabilty while playing. However, all my Systems have always been AMD, so maybe the Intel will be more overclocker friendly.

[DLC]

X35 is the way to go, and you can find boards with onboard firewire. My DQ35JO has two IEEE1394 ports:

http://www.intel.com/products/motherboa ... /index.htm

If you don't want to overclock, and want a SUPER solid board, you can't go wrong with Intel. Otherwise I'd chose ASUS, Abit or Gigabyte. Never been much of an MSI fan.

Also, 450W will probably be OK. Even with the lower power usage of the Core 2 and 8800 chips, in comparison with their immediate predecessors, they still use a LOT of power when they're working hard.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

I will never chose another abit board again, not after the problem i am experiencing with this current board I have.

I like ASUS, been seeing alot of Gigabyte boards. My roomate is running a MSI and its been doing him good for years.

is X35 a new chipset?

[DLC]

X35 is the generic term for any chipset that's using the 35 components. There's a P35, Q35 and G35.

You'd be interested in the P35 for sure, as the others have integrated graphics.

Abit has been up and down, but seems to be recouping some of their lost luster. MSI has always been a solid second-tier manufacturer to me. I've avoided buying their boards all but once, and that was in the Pentium 3 days. Gigabyte is definitely on the upswing and worth a solid look.

X38 is the new Performmace chipset that's one step above the x35.

Intel Chipsets

[Fkyx]

P35 is definitely your best bet if you don't mind the cost. MSI is a great manufacturer, but I guess you could call me a Gigabyte fanboy. Asus also makes a good board, if you're looking for another option. Whatever you go with, as long as you aren't delving too deep into BIOS settings, will suit a gaming PC.

As for your PSU, I wouldn't count on it powering a system with Core2Duo and an 8800GTS consistently. However, this will vary based on the brand. That said, a good 550+W PSU would hold you over, and those don't run too high in price. There are a couple brands of PSU you want to stay away from, though. Most notably is Rosewill. I've heard horror stories related to their cheaper products. Brands to look for include PC Power and Cooling, FSP Group, Corsair, Mushkin, Enermax, Silverstone, Thermaltake, Seasonic and probably a couple others. OCZ, Coolermaster, Apevia and Antec make decent PSUs as well. Just keep in mind that the PSU is really the backbone of your system... and if you can get away with spending a little more for quality, you'll be better off in the long run.

I'm a strong advocate for Corsair's line of PSUs. Look into them, seriously.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Thanks GUys. Im familiary with brand names and what to stay away from. Just new to the intel scene. I loved my ASUS board when i built my Athlon Barton. The ABIT board I have now was top of the line. WHen I built my Athlon 64 i got this board planning on upgrading to the X2 later... however 2 years after building it, now there is a short somwhere and it is draining my CMOS battery. I have gone through a dozen batteries in a matter of 4 months. That is what is prompting me to upgrade.

I will look into intel boards, but im on a budget. So far NewEgg has everything I want... $357 after tax and shipping. Thats 2gigs of OCZ Ram, the E6750 and the MSI P35 Neo.

Later on when I get the 8800, if i run into problems with the PSU, i will have no problem upgrading that then.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Well I went and did it. Dropped the bomb.

I decided to go back to the E6550 instead of the E6750. It saved me $20 and im certain I can OC the chip to pass the E6750.

I scrapped the MSI board. I read up on it and found out it did not support SATA RAID. I knew it didnt have IEEE 1394, and was prepared to buy a daughter card, but I do plan on raiding later and dont want to spend another $20 on a RAID card. So instead of spending $10 on a firewire card and $20 on a RAID card, I dropped an extra $40 and got the ASUS P5K: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131180

Then I coupled it with some OCZ 800MHz DDR2. The board supports 1066 DDR, and I may try and OC the RAM, or later I will just get some 1066 when prices come down alittle.

Everything said and done, + tax & shipping, it came to $375. Guess thats not too bad, alittle above my target but I should be satisified for a while. Until the G92's come out and I can afford a 2nd hand 8800GTS

-Brian