EJ22T Bogging/Missing - Help - Replaced Almost Everything!

[dyenny]

Well, dont know where to begin. I have had a ton of cars, many SVXs. I always wanted a Turbo Legacy and I finally got one. I havent even had it a few weeks and I'm just about fed up.

First the car does have a million miles (221K) but it was well maintained and is mostly highway.

With that said, when I first bought the car it had a bogging/missing that was present just about all the time. At that point before I touched it....I was noticing that if you would simply let up on the pedal it would eventually pull harder and would cure up. After it would get hot I seem to remember it coming and going if you were on the gas.

Fuel Filter, Air Filter, PCV Valve, Plugs (NGK V Powers), Wires.

That is basically the order I started replacing stuff. Nothing really made the slightest difference until the wires (the old one were arcing). Then the car did not have any problems until it was hot. At that point I noticed the coil arcing. I borrowed a used diamond coil, and it made the car run worse than the Hitachi that was arcing. During this madness the car was throwing mad codes and CEL for the knock sensor. I took it off and cleaned it up (surfaces were corroded). It is the new style with the white connector. This did not help any. So, just incase I switched the sensor out with one that I knew had been replaced on my SVX (same sensor, never thrown a code). The SVX stayed code free while the Legacy was still setting a CEL (probably my coil).

Today I bought a new style Diamond Coil from my local dealer. Installed it and the test drove.

Cold up through an 9 mile or less trip the car was running like a BEAST. It was running better and quicker than I could have ever imagined the little 2.2 could. Turbo spools up and Im not thinking this is a turbo related problem.

Ok, then. By the 9th mile of this trip.....the car had lost all its power. It was running slower than a NA 2.2L. I'd jump on it and it was just kinda revving and holding back like it was chained down. There might have been a few times on the way back home I got it to accelerate "decently" but it was nothing like what I had just experienced. There was still something holding it back.

So, I pulled over and decided to start unplugging shit. Maybe thinkng it was an MAF problem (WHICH BTW I DID CLEAN Very Very WELL). Needless to say it set the CEL and the car would barely even run or rev with it unplugged so I plugged it back in and drove home. After I had done this the car seemed to be running well and pulling hard when I was horsing it but it was missing and the power was coming and going.

One other thing I want to mention is that this car may have a failing alternator. When I'm making a good run on it (to redline or in the upper RPMS) seems especially bad on a WOT 1-2 Shift.....I swear everything about shuts down (the lights -dash, cluster, headlamps, etc..- almost shut off and after it shifts everything is better. Seems to do this alot. I also notice that at idle if I goose the throttle the lights brighten up a tad.

Idle has always been decent except when parts of the ignition were arcing and making it miss BUT the idle has always "fluttered" and the needle did or does seem to not only flutter up and down but vibrates (in a steady position). My SVX had the idle flutter when the injectors needed cleaned. So, I had the dealer do a FIC on the car and it cured it. I'm thinking this problem in the Legacy may be causing this rather than injectors. Not to mention I already have run 2 bottles of Gumout all in one cleaner and a bottle of octane boost through this car along with only premium fuel.

[dyenny]

BTW, its a 1994 SS with the 4EAT.

I forgot that I had checked the TPS when I was doing some other stuff and I had my doubts so I swapped it with a known good one and "reset" the tolerances per the service manual.

My exhaust seems to flow well. No codes now or CEL besides a bunch of codes from me unplugging the MAF and the engine dying.

Right now, I am asking for opinions. PLEASE, HELP!

Im not going to invest thousands of dollars into a 650$ car thats doing nothing but giving me a headache right now.

I'm thinking either:

-Coolant sensor (although no codes present)
-MAF Sensor
-O2 Sensor (doubtful as it looks new and no CEL - but im gonna unplug it)
-Alternator (b/c I think its dying as it is and read about it on here)
-Possibly Boost Controller (as when it acted up tonight I didn't remember hearing the turbo spools up full blow and I didnt hear the swoosh when I let off the gas). BUT I don't seem to think so because theres no clicking and its fine when its cold or not HOT.

Thanks

[dzx]

have you checked the timing to make sure it is right?

[dyenny]

Ya know I read about that on here but Im very very doubtful that would be my problem. If the timing was off....the car should not run well at all (cold, warm or hot). Not to mention most of the posts on here( that I have read and had that problem) there cars were running rather worse than mine and were having a bad misfire.

I did check the crank pulley and it has absolutely no wobble whatsover (which is very odd for a subaru of this mileage). My SVX even has the slightest wobble (cant hardly see it but its there) at only 132K miles.

I'm beginning to wonder if my problem is not in fact the MAF. I may try running over to my friends tomorrow and borrowing one off their 91 L parts car. I could imagine with 221K miles that mine might be a little outa wack.

What is throwing me off is the difference between how it runs before it heats up and when it is HOT. I mean.....its not like the car runs great for 30 seconds or 3 minutes and then starts crapping out. I drove the car 9-10 miles tonight (10 maybe 12 minutes) and then it went to crap. It should have been into open-loop (I believe) way before I turned around to go home. So, that is throwing me off too.

[555BCTurbo]

My vote is coolant temp sensor, and knock sensor...

The power loss thing could be from the knock sensor, as when it goes into "failsafe" mode it pulls an assload of timing...


I was battling the same thing on my SS just recently.

[dyenny]

A couple days ago I was beginning to think that maybe my fuel pump might have been going but that is just not like a Subaru pump (subaru pumps usually just go). However when I changed the fuel filter it sure didnt seem like it had a ton of pressure (thinking back I had done the plugs first and test drove to see if they fixed the problem) then when they did not I immeadiately changed the fuel filter and it didn't even spray out when I un-did the lines). BUT, the car always starts RIGHT up and it is running perfect until it is warmed up.

Opinions on any of this BABBLE of mine? haha

At least I've tried and read through the board first before asking for help. I just can't keep replacing shit until I finally fix the problem. I mean, I would have a "new" (crusty but nice) 94 Legacy SS 4EAT.....BUT.....yeah I'd rather get a loan on an '05 Legacy GT SDN LMTD before I do that.

[dyenny]

555BCTURBO

I already ruled out the knock sensor. I wrote about it above. Not to mention now that I've replaced all the ingition componets and nothing is arcing ... the CEL is not illuminating for a knock sensor code. If the knock sensor I swapped in were in a 1% chance bad or it was the wiring (due to the Legacy sensor working fine in my SVX)......the CEL in the Legacy would illuminate when the ECU would be picking up abnormalities and pulling timing.

As far as the coolant temp sensor. That was one of my ideas......I just would think it would turn my CEL on at some point during this madness.

[dyenny]

Well, I think this car is just going to have to go away.

Today I realized that it has been acting up when its cold too just not near as bad. When its hot the problem is say X 80% worse

I swapped out the MAFS. and before this I unplugged the O2 sensor (which had no real affect and NO CEL). The other MAF had no real effect.

The car is now missing. At idle, not only is the tach needle fluctuating/flickering.....but I can feel and hear a slight miss (when its warmed up). I can also hear and watch this under the hood of the car. Its not a horrible miss but it seems to come and go (not always there).

Driveability:
The problem is present most of the time.....but there are times when running it that it runs fine. Such as in town from time to time taking off and through the first couple gears. It also once and a while when I hop on it and it downshifts the problem will disappear and come right back.

The issue is more of a hesitation rather than miss. It doesn't miss or buck since I replaced the entire ignition system. There is just something holding it back when your trying to go and I cant for the life of me figure this out.

AGGGG.

94 SS Sedan - $1000.
New coil, plugs, wires, air filter, pcv, and a ton of repiar records.
221K miles.
4EAT that shifts better than my SVX with a Reman trans that has 90K on it (seriously - the SS mustve had a mad rebuild at one point.
dyenny@msn.com
Erie, PA 16509

[Psychoreo]

i was having a similar issue that turned out to be the transmission itself. All kinds of slippage was occurringinside of the trans. When I got on it it would pull to 3500 and hold there. nothing more, nothing less. Full throttle and 3500 rpm with no acceleration. I had just done a trans service on it earlier in the month to try and cure up some of the trans issues it was having, and when I drained it before removing it the fluid was BLACK and smelled like I melted 47 Barbie (TM) dolls in the microwave.

[douglas vincent]

I vote for two things...


Water temp sensor....

AND

What do your battery cables look like? Is there corrosion IN the plastic area? How far back does it go? I don't care which one has corrosion, but I would guess this might be your "power"issue.

[dyenny]

I took the SS down to get milk and was suprised that today....it wasn't running worth a shit until I had actually driven it quite a ways. It was running slower than a NA when cold.

So, after driving it my usual test drive route....amazingly the power came came back and it did eventually start the bogging just not as bad as it usually does until I got near home again.

I've been running it in D check mode. Today once when it was bogging under throttle I did get a 22 (knock sensor) out of it. Besides that I am getting no other codes.

So, I get home and let it idle in the driveway. Man, was it missing today. Every few seconds it would kinda miss real quick and I'd get the 22 (knock sensor) code. Now, the knock sensor as I understand is designed to pick up abnormalities and retard the timing. Considering this sensor is off my SVX and other stuff like that .... I'll have to assume there is another problem causing this miss.

I'm also going to have to assume that the fault for the miss at idle (when hot) I just described is also the fault for the bogging/miss that is happening when I'm driving. What gets me is how I could jump on the gas or slower accelerate and have NO issues. Then I could turn around and do the exact same thing again and it would bog or miss.

The coil, wires, plugs (V powers), fuel filter, air filter, pcv valve are new.

I've swapped MAFs and cleaned both. Switched knock sensors between my SVX and SS with a known good one. Changed the TPS out with a known good one off a parts car.

I'm basically at a complete loss here.

I will try the grounding mod because the main ground (behind the driver's side head) has some corrosion and exposed bare wire. I may even try swapping out the alternator and changing my water temp sensor. I just don't see how any of these things would be related to the miss at idle.


Other observations would include:

--Tach needle flutters (it also fluctuates but I mean a flickering)
--Speedo need sometimes flutters also at a constant speed
--Radio has random static that comes and goes
--Gas guage is not only inaccurate but sometimes will just drop all the way below empty and eventually rise back up.
--Also I've seen quite a few times when running the car to redline that the headlamps dim way down and after it shifts they come back bright. After I've experienced this I noticed that the lights get the slightest bit brighter at idle if I snap the throttle.

Alt belt is tight, and I just went down and checked it at idle and Im thinking it was around 14V.

Could these above problems be indicative of a bad or poor ground?

[n2x4]

I've had issues with hesitation before.

2 times it was that timing was off. One time my belt had jumped a couple teeth, and after it was warm, the tach would flutter like you mentioned. The second time it was a broken key on the crankshaft that caused the crank gear to turn and throw off timing. That case caused the car to barely move (which isn't your problem, so I doubt that's the cause). Third time, which was recently, I had a bad ground on my fuel pump. I replaced the ground, and added a second ground, and that fixed some hesitation as well.

I really think you should look at timing. Here's my three threads, and what I did. They might be something to check out:

Fuel pump ground: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=30445

Messed up crank:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=29036

Timing belt skipped teeth:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=27559
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=27589

[mcbrat]

Dang, I saw the update thread on the fire...

The driveability issues are nearly the exact thing I'm seeing, and have been searching through threads, and replacing lots 'o parts..... I'm not seeing any arcing though....

[subytech]

In your case the timing would be one of the first things I would check because its reletively simple and costs nothing unless you have to replace a tensioner or belt. And, assuming that you have decent compression if the engine is timed right, you will know that you dont have a mechanical problem.

[subytech]

Also i would try and find someone who could test your fuel pressure. I have seen many subaru pumps intermitenly fail and to a point where they flow low amounts of fuel but not nessicarily no fuel at all. This would make sence in your case or like n2x4 said make sure your pump is recieving a good power signal and has a good ground.

[BXSS]

When I put in my FMIC I had a boost leak that sort of sounded like your problem.
The car would run like crap @ WOT, but @ partial throttle it would run OKish.
I knew I had a boost leak because the turbo sounded super loud (it was working OT to try to make target boost)

Are you sure all of the intake/turbo tubing is leak free?

[mcbrat]

yeah, all leak free....it was acting up again today, and I tried something I saw on another thread here...

I unplugged the O2 sensor, revved it a bit, and it smoothed out. took it for a drive again, and all the hesitation was gone. nothing at all, not even the little nagging "pull" that felt like I was always being held back.....

[Fkyx]

I've heard of people with similar problems having a dirty fuel pump sock. You could have a looksee at that, since it's not a very *complicated* process to get to your pump.

[mcbrat]

yes. fuel pump is the next thing... I did have some jerking this morning as well, but still driving good...

I'll probably upgrade the pump, as I'm running the 22t pump currently....

[the_watts10]

your missing may be becuase of the ignition coil try and see if the coil is leaking spark where it should be like on the sides if its cracked same thing happened to me

[the_watts10]

ok sorry didnt mean to post that stupid comment since youhave seemed to already found the problem sorry im haveing the same problem that you have been having and i do believe it is the o2 sensor becuase when i unplugg it it does smooth out and the hesitation goes away thanks justin!!!