Ive had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of these. Maybe Im not understanding the idea of "Dynamic" caster.
Ive installed a bunch of em, but always thought people should go with a set of camber plates, turned to adjust caster to go with it, or instead.
My point is, I wonder if the difference is just the harder bushing itself, not necissarilly the 19mm drop, cause afterall the strut and actuall caster is the same reguardless.
Whiteline ALK install and first impressions
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The 19mm drop removes some of the anti-lift built into the suspension geometry. Effectively it makes the front end a little softer to improve grip.
To add caster, it moves the mounting point outward which moves the balljoint forward. That gives .5 degrees of caster. The added dynamic caster is due to the much stiffer urethane bushing that keeps the control arm from twisting backward as much.
As for the wheel spin, I was cornering hard, slightly uphill, at full throttle in 1st gear with my front biased lolomatic. There's not a lot of weight on that tire and the spinnig probably didn't have much to do with the ALK. A bigger rear swaybar will keep that front tire down a little better, and balance things more to my liking.
I put on that 20mm front bar because it was cheap and I've heard good things about how the added stiffness improves the tire contact patch. It did reduce roll but didn't seem to do a whole lot for grip, as judged by the speed at which I could take a 270 degree onramp every morning. It didn't reduce the speed I could go through there but the car was more understeery. I'm getting the adjustable whiteline bar, I just need to decide whether or not to get the biggest one in case I want that 22mm front bar some day.
Additional benefit found: Improved brake feel. Reduced control arm movement makes the brakes more responsive too. it's pretty neat.
To add caster, it moves the mounting point outward which moves the balljoint forward. That gives .5 degrees of caster. The added dynamic caster is due to the much stiffer urethane bushing that keeps the control arm from twisting backward as much.
As for the wheel spin, I was cornering hard, slightly uphill, at full throttle in 1st gear with my front biased lolomatic. There's not a lot of weight on that tire and the spinnig probably didn't have much to do with the ALK. A bigger rear swaybar will keep that front tire down a little better, and balance things more to my liking.
I put on that 20mm front bar because it was cheap and I've heard good things about how the added stiffness improves the tire contact patch. It did reduce roll but didn't seem to do a whole lot for grip, as judged by the speed at which I could take a 270 degree onramp every morning. It didn't reduce the speed I could go through there but the car was more understeery. I'm getting the adjustable whiteline bar, I just need to decide whether or not to get the biggest one in case I want that 22mm front bar some day.
Additional benefit found: Improved brake feel. Reduced control arm movement makes the brakes more responsive too. it's pretty neat.
Enjoy the read...
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/howantilift.htm
http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/AS_319_ab.htm
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/howantilift.htm
http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/AS_319_ab.htm
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's
n2x4 wrote:Do you think you're seeing a bigger difference from the change in geometry or from the fact you've got firmer bushings?
Since the bushing contributes to the geometry change, I'd say it's a pretty even combination of the two. However, while braking the stiffer bushing alone made a big difference. Cornering on power the geometry change is most noticeable.
I made a u-turn across a wide road today from a stop at full throttle. No squeal, no understeer, no inside wheel spin.
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greg donovan
- Fourth Gear
- Posts: 1947
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:22 pm
- Location: Fargo, ND
I'm actually not really a fan of the adjustable links. Seems to just give you to many variables when it comes to alignment, plus I'd like to stick with rubber bushings back there.
I need to get under there and check things out. The car drove fine and I didn't hit anything very hard, but from my drunken flashlight inspection last night (after we took a taxi to bars, not after I crashed the car) they don't look completely straight. I'm just going to pick up another set of stock links and possibly press in some group n bushings. You can get the whole set for like $85 and I'm not going to do much driving in the next month and a half anyway. The nice thing is that I know a guy with an set of rear sti struts in case that's somehow tweaked too.
Anyway I guess I should have heeded whiteline's "drive carefully after you install stuff" warning. Turned in fairly hard, off the brakes, and the back just whipped around.
I need to get under there and check things out. The car drove fine and I didn't hit anything very hard, but from my drunken flashlight inspection last night (after we took a taxi to bars, not after I crashed the car) they don't look completely straight. I'm just going to pick up another set of stock links and possibly press in some group n bushings. You can get the whole set for like $85 and I'm not going to do much driving in the next month and a half anyway. The nice thing is that I know a guy with an set of rear sti struts in case that's somehow tweaked too.
Anyway I guess I should have heeded whiteline's "drive carefully after you install stuff" warning. Turned in fairly hard, off the brakes, and the back just whipped around.
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SemperGuard
- Second Gear
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:07 pm
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greg donovan
- Fourth Gear
- Posts: 1947
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:22 pm
- Location: Fargo, ND
i wanna put the adjustable ones on our rallycross car so we can quickly dial in some toe out for the tight courses and back to zero toe for the faster more open ones.jamal wrote:I'm actually not really a fan of the adjustable links. Seems to just give you to many variables when it comes to alignment, plus I'd like to stick with rubber bushings back there.
I need to get under there and check things out. The car drove fine and I didn't hit anything very hard, but from my drunken flashlight inspection last night (after we took a taxi to bars, not after I crashed the car) they don't look completely straight. I'm just going to pick up another set of stock links and possibly press in some group n bushings. You can get the whole set for like $85 and I'm not going to do much driving in the next month and a half anyway. The nice thing is that I know a guy with an set of rear sti struts in case that's somehow tweaked too.
Anyway I guess I should have heeded whiteline's "drive carefully after you install stuff" warning. Turned in fairly hard, off the brakes, and the back just whipped around.
96 Impreza L sedan
97 legacy outback limited
00 Impreza RS sedan
97 legacy outback limited
00 Impreza RS sedan
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SemperGuard
- Second Gear
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:07 pm
Meh, the rear axles will be fine. And you should be okay for rubbing. Your car is a post-face so the rear wheel arch is slightly higher, and you're still on stock springs right, so the ride height is still acceptable.
I mean you can pick these up for like 100-150 if you look around, and they're lighter than any of the poly-bushed aftermarkets.
I mean you can pick these up for like 100-150 if you look around, and they're lighter than any of the poly-bushed aftermarkets.
I'm on 04 STi struts and springs with 225/50-16s (16x7 +53). I already rub the rear fenders under hard cornering with people in the back. Maybe I could get away with it after a crapload of rolling.
It would be a really cheap way to switch to aluminum, but then I'd have to figure out what to do about the swaybars and I'm still not convinced the axles will be fine.
It would be a really cheap way to switch to aluminum, but then I'd have to figure out what to do about the swaybars and I'm still not convinced the axles will be fine.
Well I didn't bend anything and me crashing didn't really have anything to do with the ALK. Something is funky with my steering rack and/or alignment. This weekend I'm replacing the rack and installing subframe lock bolts and outrigger bushings finally so I'll get to push things a little harder.
It kind of feels like the rear toe adjustment bolt is loose. When I got an alignment last they had trouble zeroing the rear toe because the subframe was shifting around. Those bolts and bushings should take care of that.
It kind of feels like the rear toe adjustment bolt is loose. When I got an alignment last they had trouble zeroing the rear toe because the subframe was shifting around. Those bolts and bushings should take care of that.
Pics please of the subframe locking bolts. Always thought that was overkill mod, prehaps not?
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's
Everything I've read says they're good and I'll be able to tell you more next weekend. That's assuming I can get them installed since I hear it's hard sometimes. At least one person has broken off the nut welded in the chassis and has his bolt stuck halfway in.
They thread into the empty holes in the rear subframe. There are four other bolts holding it in place with rubber bushings. So the rubber bushings wear out and then your subframe starts shifting around even more.
http://www.northursalia.com/modificatio ... frame.html
They thread into the empty holes in the rear subframe. There are four other bolts holding it in place with rubber bushings. So the rubber bushings wear out and then your subframe starts shifting around even more.
http://www.northursalia.com/modificatio ... frame.html
Yes, these things are never as easy as they should be - especially after 15 years or so. I wonder how hard it is to get those subframe bolts loose with the axles in the way. Do let us know how it goes and good luck!
AW
AW
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's
I think the instructions say it, but just to reitterate, loosen the 4 bolts that hold the subframe to the chassis before you install the subframe lock bolts. This way you can jerk around the subframe to properly align the lock bolts.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
I failed miserably at installing these this weekend. I need to clean the threads out better. Also my whole rear deal is not right somehow. I'm thinking new lateral links with group n bushings and the lock bolts will take care of the handling gremlin. Maybe a fresh set of struts if I can find some 05-07 sti take-offs on the cheap and swap my front housings onto them.
I also got the car aligned today. More cross camber than I wanted, not enough caster or negative camber. I think the printout might have been wrong because I should have more than +3 caster with the ALK. I had that before I installed it.
I also got the car aligned today. More cross camber than I wanted, not enough caster or negative camber. I think the printout might have been wrong because I should have more than +3 caster with the ALK. I had that before I installed it.