Project I've been working on...

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:18 am

You guys might be interested in this...

I'll get the prototypes in the next few weeks and the kits will be ready for production shortly after my approval.

http://forums.racingbrake.com/showpost. ... ostcount=8

A 290x18mm upgrade, and a 316x18mm upgrade. The 316 upgrade SHOULD fit under 16" wheels. The 290 will definitely fit under 16" wheels.

Ultimately, it will be a less expensive upgrade than going with OE Legacy GT rear brake parts.

Enjoy.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:50 am

Awesome.

I would definitely go for the 290x18 upgrade. Maybe get a front brake upgrade for my WRX brakes at the same time.....

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:04 am

Phil, this rocks!!

So if I'm reading this right you can buy these rear rotors...

http://www.racingbrake.com/LEGACY_2_5_G ... 52-111.htm

...and they will work with our calipers with no changes?

Or will be need some brackets and converstions.

Ideally I'd like to just change rear rotors - what am I looking at here?

Maybe after the prototypes they mention are built and on their web page it will be clearer?

These posts are confusing...

Post 1)

"Option #1 - One size up; Upgrade stock rear brake rotor (266x10 non-ventilated) to the new Legacy (290x18 ventilated rotors)

Option #2 - Two size up; Upgrade to 316x18 ventilated rotors - same as our offer for new Legacy rear BBK upgrade)

Both options allow the use of original calipers to save the costs and installation hassles."....

Post 2)

"Just to keep you guys informed the brackets are being machined with two versions:

#1 - For upgrading to new Legacy rotor (290x18)
#2 - For upgrading to Legacy turbo rotor (316x18)

We expect to have them ready for fitment test and production approval around mid February."

http://forums.racingbrake.com/showthrea ... 51#post951

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:08 am

I guess I'm not sure when and why brackets kick in and what they are for...

Also, what percent larger/better than stock?

I replaced the fronts rotors with Brembo slotted/vented but these look even nicer and I'm about due up on the rears.

Also, do we have to worry about changing brake bias with a slightly larger rotor in the back?

Thanks in advance for your patience and wisdom.

AW

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:13 am

Rock on Phil!!!! Way to keep the 1st Gen-ers in mind. Glad you haven't forgetten about us with having your Forester.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:26 am

Adam West wrote:I guess I'm not sure when and why brackets kick in and what they are for...

Also, what percent larger/better than stock?

I replaced the fronts rotors with Brembo slotted/vented but these look even nicer and I'm about due up on the rears.

Also, do we have to worry about changing brake bias with a slightly larger rotor in the back?

Thanks in advance for your patience and wisdom.

AW

The bracket is what holds the pads, and attaches the caliper to the knuckle. What they are making is a bracket that replaces the factory bracket. Their version will move the caliper further out, allowing the use of a larger rotor.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:08 am

Sweeeet.

I'm glad you posted this up Phil. I know it's been a while since you posted about this after starting the one thread a while back. I have the new GT rear rotors and have been going back and forth about what to do about my calipers.

This is awesome and I look forward to seeing them released. The big thing for me is that they fit under 16's but it sounds like you've taken care of that.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:47 am

The 16's on my Forester are the tightest clearance 16's Subaru made. If they fit under them, they will fit under anything. I wish I had XT wheels so I could clear 4-pots.

I KNOW the 290 kit will clear 16's. I'm hoping the 316 kit will too. I am unsure of which one they are sending for review. I suggested they make both kits.

For everyone's information: This kit will use existing 1st generation Turbo Legacy rear calipers with an aftermarket (but OEM quality) bracket to essentially convert them into 5th Gen LGT rear brakes. The piston sizes are identical to the LGT, and the bracket will be similar. It will, effectively, be a $400ish LGT rear brake upgrade with good rotors. Cheaper than even takeoff LGT rear's. I didn't talk prices with the RB guys, so don't quote me on that.

I did the math:

WRX front brakes and the 316 rear kit comes to a 71/29 brake bias. Shifted rearward a small amount over a WRX front and stock rear. Slightly more rear biased than the H6 upgrade.

If you have the wagon prop-valve, you'll have a REALLY nice setup. It'll dive less under hard braking and rotate with less effort when trail-braking (thus scrubbing less speed).

Hopefully, this kit will trump even the H6 rear upgrade as the path of choice. Especially is RB releases a caliper WITH it which is one possibility we discussed.

And for those worry warts who are concerned with increasing the moment arm of the rear brakes, this will be IDENTICAL to how the 05+LGT rear brakes are setup. The 290mm kit will, literally, be almost exactly the same bracket. For all intents and purposes, it will be a stock LGT upgrade... but for less money.

And of course, you get vented rear brakes AND larger diameter. The real best of both worlds. No more trade-offs. Track-Junkies take notice!

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:23 am

Drool...

I've got 99 RS rims so I'm set for either one. And I like a good deal as much as the next guy. Not only that but RB stuff is so quality from the look of it...

I was just talking about this with a WRX owner that had upgraded to the Legacy H6 set up. I was skeptical that I'd want to fool around with the brake bias engineered into the car but if what you say is true it sounds like a win.

I HAVE notice lots of dive on braking at track days and WOULD like a more predicable tail out on trail braking...

So, count me in and hurry!

Cheers,

AW

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:01 am

BAC5.2 wrote: I'm hoping the 316 kit will too.

I think I have at least a spare 1/2" between my RS wheels and H6 rears.

Also the LGT brake lines are different and you can't use the WRX lines. I'm not sure what the current work around even is for that.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:50 pm

The brake line connects to the caliper in the same way on the LGT rear brakes as they do on all other Subaru's IIRC. But yes, the LGT does have a different brake line set than other "traditional" subaru's.

So if you have a half inch spare, then the 316 kit would probably fit... almost.

1/2" = 12.52mm. The 316 rotor is 26mm larger than the H6 rotor. 26/2 = 13 required.

You might have to grind a little of the caliper. But I bet it'll work with RS wheels.

I don't know if it will work with my SF wheels though.

To think, if I had XT wheels, I wouldn't have even started working on this kit with them. I'd just run 4-pots/2-pots and called it a day. This was way more fun than that.

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:20 pm

Good thing too since XT wheels look like ass. <grin>

What's going to look a little strange on my car is a "full platter" on the rear (with the rotor disk filling up the whole wheel) and the typical nice but not outrageously full, stock front rotors (with the 16")...

Hmmm. But I NEVER had the stock brakes fade (w/upgraded pad/ss lines and high boil fluids).

Do the front WRX upgrade just for looks? Would it negate the brake bias improvements I hope to get on doing just the rears with the 316 rotor....What think?

AW

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:52 pm

I haven't actually measured. It just seems like I have at least that much room.

And from what I've heard, non-LGT brake lines leak at the LGT caliper fitting.

I think part of the caliper needs to be ground down or something to do it.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:12 pm

Adam - The WRX front's aren't for looks. If you run the stock fronts with the 316 rears, you'll have a LOT of rear bias. I'll have to do the math, but it would probably end up somewhere like 68/32 or so. Too much rear bias. I'd do WRX fronts at the same time.

Jamal - Good thing we won't have to use LGT rears then! We don't even actually have to unbolt the stock brakelines. 4 bolts and 15 minutes is all you'll need to do the swap.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:50 pm

Adam, you will definately want to upgrade the fronts if you go with the 316 rears. Back on my old BC (FWD) I upgraded the rears to turbo setup with aggressive pads and left the fronts stock. This resulted in a bias that would lock the rears first. This is pee your pants fun but crap your pants scary depending on the situation.

And WRX upgrades can be had pretty cheap over on Nabisco.

Phil, I'll be really curious about the 316's fitting under 16" rims. That would be an awesome way to move the bias backwards just a little bit more. Though it would look a little funny having the rears larger than the fronts.

Can't wait to see this happen though

.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:47 pm

Lee, looks or performance? You know where my priorities lie

I don't know which kit they are going to send me for demo. I'll be upset if the 316 kit doesn't clear the wheels.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:14 pm

The kits are ready and both sizes will be shipped to me within the week.

I'll be test fitting and test driving both kits. I'll report my findings and approval to RB and then I'll post up here what kit you guys should look at.

I'm excited about the 316 kit. I hope it'll fit under my SF wheels. I think it will be a GREAT match for the 294 fronts.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:32 pm

Prototypes are on the floor of my apartment.

The 316mm rears are HUGE. Seriously, friggin ginormous!

I'm waiting to hear back on a few things before I post pictures or start the install.

The one bit that I WILL leak is the quality of the kit. You would never be able to tell it wasn't OEM. All cast, super beefy stuff.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:01 pm

:):)

Can't wait to see the pics.

How heavy are the 316 rotors?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:17 pm

The UPS packaging listed the 290x18 kit at 32lbs and the 316x18 kit at 37lbs (including brackets for both).

Not THAT heavy.

They are RB slotted and vented (obviously) rotors.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:58 am

What would the bias be like with WRX fronts and 290 rears?

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:12 am

Same as stock.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 am

Nice.

Actually, I also have a wagon prop valve, so it should end up a bit more rear biased than stock, right?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:44 pm

Not exactly. the wagon prop valve doesn't increase rear bias, it just maintains pressure to the rears at higher pressures than the stock prop valve.

Under HIGH pressure, then yes the rear pistons will see more line pressure than with the stock prop valve.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:18 pm

Just for my clarification, IronMonkeyL255 were you asking what the bias would be when going from stock tleg to the wrx fronts & 290 rears?

If so you'll see about 10% shift in rear brake torque....overall brake bias which is different then brake torque won't shift much.

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Project I've been working on...

Project I've been working on...