can you say..AMAZING!???!? (right spot, my bad)

[SubaruNation]

anybody ever heard about this?

personally, I would like one right now!
i just hope the gas companies don't buy up the patent like they did with batteries...

supposedly a v8 can get AROUND 200mpg?

the 2000 subaru legacy went from 30 to uh....90 mpg highway.

my face looks like this ----->

this is the site, check it out!
http://www.preignitioncc.com/nw/index.htm


and here's a video!
http://www.preignitioncc.com/nw/flashPiccHi.htm

[SubaruNation]

somebody has to have read this..

i'm requesting a quote.

think this would increase performance also?

[smh0101]

I'm looking at it now. But the last major dude to come up with a way to get insane fuel economy was doing a publicized trip across country to show off the new system... and he mysteriously vanished half way through...

[smh0101]

EDIT: Okie... So after re-reading the page twice... Somethin is off... And it is making less and less sense...

[jamal]

Sorry no. Using the motor to generate electricity to produce hydrogen to burn is not more efficient than just using the motor to power the car.

[vrg3]

The sentences on that page are such garbage I don't even know where to begin.

Cats don't break down large gas molecules so less exhaust hits the environment. They do oxidize some hydrocarbons, creating water and carbon dioxide, but that process is called burning. If you burn the fuel before it gets into the combustion chamber, what do you think that would do to efficiency?

What's "elemental state" supposed to mean? Breaking a compound down into its constituent elements? So gasoline is converted into hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon? Any process that separates the molecules that way would require a lot of energy.

Then they claim it turns the gasoline into a plasma? Ionized gas (which is what plasma really is) is a huuuugely energetic state of matter. The amount of energy required to turn any significant quantity of any liquid into a plasma is humongous.

The idea of generating hydrogen by using electrolysis to break water down is absurd to me. The amount of energy released by burning that hydrogen has to be less than the amount of energy spent generating it in the first place. That electrical energy may be temporarily stored in the battery, but it has to come from the alternator -- and therefore the engine -- originally.

If this product isn't actually idiocy, why is it marketed with idiocy?

[smh0101]

If you cant dazzle them with brilliance... Baffle them with Bullshit.

[Arctic Assassian]

I caught on pretty quick there, and that website stinks.

[Aerotech]

*Thread-jack*

Has anyone seen the 5-cycle engine under development? One guy is working on this idea, after the engine warms up, he's injecting a spray of water into the cylinder, right after the exhaust stroke. The latent heat in the cylinder instantly flashes the water to steam, expanding it, and driving the piston down in a second power stroke. Then the gasoline cycle resumes.

[evolutionmovement]

I posted this in the duplicate thread:
Thanks to loop holes, these guys might not violate the laws of commerce, but they sure seem to claim to violate the laws of thermodynamics.

This needs to be said and it can't be said enough: THERE IS NO MAGIC 100 MPG CARBURETOR OR RELATED THING. The efficiency of an engine is relatively fixed by nature of its design. There is only so much energy in a given volume of fuel and a large amount of it is wasted as heat, a deal more in internal friction and pumping losses, and a little more in basic inefficiency that comes from less than perfect air/fuel ratios (this is a small factor with modern engines). Aerodynamics also has a large effect on mileage, a greater effect the faster you go. No carburetor could have ever gotten any .65 CD, large frontal area vehicle with an engine displacing more than 3 liters (at least for the old cars of the time that the magic carb is supposed to originate from) to get 100 mpg. The only way any vehicle like that could get that mileage is if it had a tiny fuel leak as it was dropped, not running, out of an airplane and then it would only get that mileage for a short distance (few miles at best).

Judging by the quote above, these guys don't understand the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics - matter cannot be created or destroyed, yet it states, I'm paraphrasing, that 'big particles are turned into small particles so less exhaust hits the environment'. Less exhaust does not hit the environment, different exhaust does.

The whole thing is snake oil. The PICC would do nothing except stall the car by recirculating more exhaust gas (which is already being done). If there is enough HCs to run your car on you'd be running so rich that if you drove past a bar on Sat night and someone flicked a cigarette towards you, you'd likely end up like the jet at the end of Die Hard 2 (ok, that's an exaggeration, but it does paint a fun picture). I think you'd be hard pressed to find a carb car that could run on its exhaust gases.

The other thing they advertise, the fuel cell thing, is funny as well - as if you could generate and collect enough hydrogen to run a car with a single battery that, presumably, is being charged by the alternator, but somehow increasing the efficiency of the whole system. If only extracting large volumes of hydrogen was so easy and efficient! Like matter, energy cannot be created or destroyed, just converted. Or for the religious, God said there will be no free rides!

Ah, but then there is the existential question that inevitably arises - where does the energy of life go when things die?

I'm selling diet pills that are guaranteed to work and you can eat whatever you want. My pills aren't BS pseudo-science like these guys' claims - they're tape worms.

[Subtle]

In the 1930s and 1940s there were stories about a pill that had been developed that when put in each tank of gas would provide a fabulous increase in mileage.

Around the same time, there was the "Fish" carb that when installed on any car would accomplish much the same. It might have been designed by a guy called Fish.

There might have been a variety of such schemes, but the common theme was that the "big oil" companies bought them off the market to maintain their profit margins.

The truth is that any real device that would significantly increase economy would be found by entreprenuerial engineers and brought to the market.

Always over riding have been the implacable laws of thermodynamics that permit only so much mechanical energy out of so much fuel.

Now, where do I buy one of those cats

[evolutionmovement]

Wouldn't that 5-cycle be a 6-cycle engine? If not, how would that work with steam in the cylinder during the intake cycle where you're now trying to pull fuel and air into a (if it works at all) still expanding mass of steam? I don't see how this is practical or would be reliable even if Merlin could make it work. The timing and metering would be odd to say the least. Steam can produce tremendous power, but it has to be optimized. A high rpm application like a gasoline engine wouldn't match up so that, at best, you just added a lot of complication without getting much in return. The problems with steam engines are the BTUs necessary to produce high pressure steam, condensing it for reuse, and corrosion. Throwing water into a hot cylinder would cause all kinds of material reliability issues, but I don't think it would produce enough pressure to perform enough work anyway. I would think you'd have to create the engine so that it used no other cooling system and insulated the heat within the cylinders in order to get a fast, powerful expansion wave. Then you would have to restrict the engine to low rpm for various reasons to do with both applications. If it did work, you'd have to make it a long stroke engine anyway to use the relatively slow expansion of the steam to best effect. Later steam engines would have triple-expansion cylinders to best use the potential of the steam's expansion energy, so now you're talking about different sized cylinders or else you're not really getting much from the steam to make it worthwhile (the steam would enter an initial, high pressure cylinder to push down the piston, then it would be exhausted into a second, lower pressure cylinder to do the same thing, and finally a third, even lower-pressure cylinder, then possibly on to a condenser). Now your head design isn't very good for evacuation once the expansion cycle is done. Basically, you're looking at building a steam engine. Outwardly, ICE and ECE like steam seem very similar in concept, but differ pretty greatly in design. You'd end up with something that worked poorly for either use if at all. For years, I wanted to build a steam car again based on the Doble (built by a local guy, though the car was built in Detroit and then California), but it's just far too impractical. The main reason I wanted it was for the oil independence of it, but diesel has now taken its place in my heart.

BMW is working on a system that uses exhaust heat to produce steam that runs a small turbine that provides electrical power. It's a separate system from the engine.

[jamal]

Really the big gain left for internal combustion is electronically actuated valves.

[evolutionmovement]

Rotary valves would be a lot quicker to market and have nearly the practical variability of solenoid poppet valves, but would not require the electrical system upgrade (48VDC+), nor have as much room for breakage. Two companies have been issued patents for seals on rotary valves within the last ten years or so (fixing the traditional problem with using them).

[jamal]

I don't really see any improvement in valve timing with the rotary valves. Plus I think you lose variability.

[evolutionmovement]

Rotary valves have far more potential for timing and duration as well as reduced restriction over poppet valves. They can be run like cams presently are, or better, optimized through the use of step motors. The only disadvantage over the variability of solenoid-actuated valves (or pneumatic as F1 teams use) is that the variability could not be applied to the individual cylinders, although on an H4 like a Subaru, there could be solenoids, perhaps front and back of each bank controlling separate valves. Imagine them like hollow cams with oval, rectangular, whatever shape would work best, cut outs for airflow. Within reason, it may even be possible to have two sets of profiles for the valves phased 180* apart and swapped via rotation at a given rpm. That may require a large diameter cylinder, which would effect airflow efficiency, in order to have enough dead space between for the closed phase of the valve. Actually, since the closed phase would be common to both open profiles, the open profiles may be able to be closer than 180* depending on how much space is needed between them for sealing.

I hope that makes some since. A couple drawings would make much more sense.

[SubaruNation]

wow
thank you personal consultants....

they responded to my email with "this is great b/c.."
which leads me to believe it is some sort of mumbo jumbo.
i guess it's too good to be true, except for that fact that they Guarantee a 50% increase in mileage!?
how would they go about doing that then if the energy in hte fuel is limited, i dunno i think there is some truth to this..

on a lighter note, i just found some side-skirts and the front and rear lip for my wagon ..off another wagon...

IN TOWN
ah ha ha!

[evolutionmovement]

A guarantee means nothing. They'll give you the runaround about getting your money back until they rename themselves and come out under another name next year. They'd probably have you send it back to them first and never issue a refund.

Advertising means nothing. For instance, furniture stores have an exemption from liability for false claims in advertising, so who knows about these monkeys. How do I know about the furniture? In the North East, we have this douchebag company called Bob's Discount Furniture that fills every advertising medium with an incessant barrage of corny, annoying bullshit ads touting the cheap 80's-style furniture he sells as being shit like, "solid mahogany" when the thing costs a few hundred dollars and there would be no way to get the raw material alone for the cost of the furniture. Not to mention, nobody would make such shitty looking crap out of mahogany or similar "solid hardwoods" he advertises. And they don't - they're shit-board with bad-looking veneer so I looked into it and there is an actual exemption in the advertising law for furniture distributors about making false claims.

Want to see what I mean about this dick smack ugly tool? I'm sure you can find him in Google. Youtube only seems to have bad parodies of his commercials. The guy needs to be stabbed in the face in front of his family and the wounds pissed on.

[smh0101]

The guy needs to be stabbed in the face in front of his family and the wounds pissed on.

Remind me NEVER to piss you off!

[evolutionmovement]

I'm being kind. You obviously aren't familiar with the ads and their ubiquity. Even their delivery trucks have a huge picture of this ugly prick's face smiling at you. It's enough to drive a mennonite to murder. It pisses me off that these school shooter losers don't take out someone like Bob who deserves it more than the people they shoot. Sure there are far better targets than Bob, but damn you just have to see and hear these ads. I think the CIA uses them to torture people in Guantanamo. If music in constant loop can be used as torture, then Bob's commercials would break anyone.

[smh0101]

I'm being kind. You obviously aren't familiar with the ads and their ubiquity. Even their delivery trucks have a huge picture of this ugly prick's face smiling at you. It's enough to drive a mennonite to murder. It pisses me off that these school shooter losers don't take out someone like Bob who deserves it more than the people they shoot. Sure there are far better targets than Bob, but damn you just have to see and hear these ads. I think the CIA uses them to torture people in Guantanamo. If music in constant loop can be used as torture, then Bob's commercials would break anyone.

I was just kidding...

mennonite to murder!! I luv it!!

[SubaruNation]

i just looked up what that means
pretty f'd up ha ha

i want those sideskirts SOOOOOO bad.



i believe you, furniture stores in general should not be allowed to advertise b/c every week is a new sale that has nothing to do with anything...every week it's "hurry in" even though there will be another on 3 days later

[555BCTurbo]

*Thread-jack*

Has anyone seen the 5-cycle engine under development?

Old news...

It's called the Miller-Cycle Engine...

Mazda Millenias have them


*Edit: Nick can't read very well...disregard post!

[evolutionmovement]

That's not what he's talking about - the Miller-cycle doesn't use water or steam.

[555BCTurbo]

That's not what he's talking about - the Miller-cycle doesn't use water or steam.

Oh...my lack of reading strikes again!