Suggested Order of Modifications *UPDATED 12-17 Now here*

[Brat4by4]

You can go larger turbo without EM, but you shouldn't push it. I've been running the TD05-16G for a while now, but it's pretty much running stock boost.

However, you really can't do squat on the stock EM, it absolutely sucks.

Everthing you just said still indicates getting EM first is the smart thing to do. Most everything on the list can be done first, but the idea is to make it logical.

Most mod-anxious people with stock turbos have trouble not upping the boost too high, let alone with a bigger turbo & not enough fuel. And if people did the EM they might find there is enough power to satisfy them for a while, until they want to, and it makes sense to, get a bigger turbo and bigger tune with bigger injectors.

But, it is still all just my opinion. Setting ones self up for a lack of self-control should be avoided, whether its overcooking your tires or your engine.

[/Stepping off engine management soapbox]

...and proceeding with lamenting of circumstances leading up to sale of personal Autronic stand-alone.

[smh0101]

Well... What Josh was saying is right...

I believe what he meant was that it does not absolutely have to be done before other things...

Sorry, but standalones are hella spendy.

And, if you're going to modify a car... You best have self control... or GTFO...

And by self control I mean not going past your limits with what you have.

On a vf-11 you can go up to about 14 before you start maxing too much shit out, your turbo isnt efficient, but its do-able...

Now of course that changes with turbo size... a vf-11 at 14lbs IS NOT THE SAME as a vf-12 at 14lbs... The vf-12 will have maxed a lot stuff out... Injectors, MAF etc...

I'll probably do an IC, Fuel Pump, and a vf-12 with 440s and not go over 11lbs... Until I get a Perfect Power or some other EM system.

[SubaruNation]

you think 10 psi is cool for boost on the stock turbo with sti xhaust and my tmic?

[Legacy777]

Personally I don't like doing things twice, which is why I recommend getting the components needed to support more power, and then upgrading EM. However if you don't have self control to not blow up your engine in the median time before you get EM, that's not my problem.

[SubaruNation]

.....do have self control right?
not sure here

[smh0101]

Well... did you jack the skirts? Me thinks not = Self Control


Anyways...

Are there any more suggestions? I'm gonna leave things as they were.

[SubaruNation]

not yet ah ha ha

[BXSS]

Good Job on getting this done!
Legacy Central finally has a mod sequence post!!

I am not in 100% agreement with everything documented - I felt no additional lag going from stock to a FMIC on the ej22t on the tiny VF11.

I think it should be noted that TMICs will get heatsoaked when sitting in traffic - I've seen temps over 135* in my Impreza while stuck in NYC traffic (which is why I'll be going FMIC on that car by summer).

[smh0101]

Thanks for your input BXSS... Everything you said is in Violet.

[smh0101]

Whoever has input will get their own color (until we run out) that has what you said.

So yeah, um... keep on addin information!

Maybe this ought to be stickied?

[SubaruNation]

don't use radiator hose for the 06/07 WRX TMIC install.
get a silicone hose from here for your install to the vf11 if you do it that way..
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_ ... 0fe4d9b2a6

and i think that's it

bump

[smh0101]

Thanks Zach, tis updated!

[BXSS]

I looked @ this again & realized that AWICs are not listed.
OEM Air-water TMICs came on JDM/EDM BC Legacys & Libertys.

AWICs have the potential to cool charge temps below ambient temps if used with a ice water tank.
A pump, heat exchanger, & associated wiring/plumbing will have to be used/done with a AWIC set-up.
I'm starting to see cheap AWICs & heat exchangers on e-bay which may make these a good performing budget I/C option.

Great Job on the Mod-Sequence - again!

Any next step on the mod sequence planned like DOHC conversions, big turbos, EM?

[smh0101]

Thanks!

And I do plan on adding some more stuff... I'm working on it right now.

[smh0101]

12) Engine Management

If you read some more into this thread you see that this becomes a hot topic for placement.

Regardless… here it is.

Piggy-Backs - The most common one is a PP6… Perfect Power 6. It can do quite a bit for yours cars performance. And allow you to upgrade a lot.

So Turbos, Injectors, MAFS… You name it.

HOWEVER. All it can do is modify the ECU signals to do what you want. BUT it cannot however replace them. SO you still have to fart around with MAFs even though you have a MAP system to… and you’re still stuck with the pesky IAC shit.


Standalones – There are a lot of these. I do know that John (kleinkid) has gotten some damn good results with the Autronic made for an early WRX.

Link makes some. And there are a lot. Someone else could really do a better job here than me.

So yeah, could someone take over the EM section?

13) Injectors

One of the more common minor upgrades are 440cc JDM Legacy RS (AUDM Liberty RS) injectors.

I have heard conflicting info on these, I have heard that you must use USDM N/A Legacy Fuel Rails… BUT According to John (kleinkid) you don’t.
You can also use others like WRX and STi Injectors. The WRX injectors are grey I believe and the STis are Yellow.

The WRXs are 440cc I BELIEVE… Please Correct me if I am wrong, and the STis are 550cc.

FYI, injectors size is not dependent upon boost level, once I thought it was. I was wrong.

It depends on estimated hp. According to Vikash (vrg3) the rule of thumb on size is double your estimated hp.
Plus a little bit for Murphy (Murphys law… d’oh!).


That is a rough estimate… stock Lego Turbacy… 160chp… Injector size… 370cc 370/160= 2.31

USDM STi… 293chp… injector size… 550cc 550/293=1.877

USDM WRX Blues… 227chp… injector size… 440cc 440/227=1.93

JDM Legacy RS… 220cho… injector size… 440cc 440/220=2


You get it.


Now, the max the Stock ECU can control is 440cc injectors. So you’re gonna need EM if you want larger. SO… go re-read step 12.


14) Fuel System Upgrades

I honestly don’t know that much about this… But eventually, with larger injectors and EM, your gonna run out of fuel… And lean is BAADDDD.

So don’t do it.

A proper tune ought to help sure, but you need Fuel Pressure Regulators and possible Fuel Controllers.

I have heard that TurboXS’ DTec Fuel Controller is pretty good.

I hope someone else can take over this section.


15) Transmission and Drivetrain

Honestly, if your at this step… Your stock trannys probably going to shit on you… Especially with higher mileage trannys. (Not Transvestites… I heard someone say “I blew up my tranny at the drag races” and thought that was funny… okay back on topic)


The stock 5mt for a sport sedan is a decent tranny, especially with the hydraulic clutch, but WRX transmissions are better… AND definitely STi trannys are the shit… But um… yeah an STi Tranny is probably more than your car.


Depending on what you plan on doing, certain gear ratios will benefit you differently. I still have a 3.90 (stock Sport Sedan ratio) why?

Well, I’m too cheap to use what money I have on a different one, and I drive a LOT on freeway. 25mi to school and 25mi back, yeah, I use a shitton of gas.

The most common ones are:
Sport Sedan/ Touring Wagon (5mt and 4eat) = 3.90 Final Drive

1st Gen Legacy (USDM) (5mt and 4eat) = 4.11 Final Drive

STi 6mt = 3.90 Final Drive

JDM Foresters (Not sure on the year) = 4.44 Final Drive

Someone please add to this… It would be greatly appreciated.
FYI, the higher the number final drive the higher the rpm to wheel revolutions ratio is.

Also LSDs. Depending on what you’re doing you will benefit from a rear lsd.

A Limited Slip Differential only allows enough slip so the inside wheel can turn slower on turns. And when on wet or slippery conditions it sends power equally to both wheels, with no regard for traction.

3.90 LSDs were on 1991 USDM Legacy Turbos. 1992-1994 didn’t have them.

Also the overseas one often had VLSDs. Someone ought to be able to shed more light.

One note about axles (okay halfshafts… whateve)… the FWD NA Legacys had beefier front halfshaft than AWD legacys… so, you may consider upgrading to those.


16) Head Swaps

At this point… I would definitely assume you are pushing those weak-ass Phase I SOHC Legacy Turbo Heads past their limit.
You’ve reached block engine build stage… Long and Short Block.
On the long block side… Dealing with Heads there are a lot of different options.

SOHC is commonly refered to for both early BC/BF heads such as the stock Ej22t heads and also the heads on later (phase 2) Ej25s.

DOHC is really a bit of a cluster f**k. Ej20g, Ej20k, Ej20h are all DOHC. These are the most commonly discussed here. Ej205, Ej207, Ej255 and Ej257 are all newer (different ECU signals) and basically ignored on this forum. The early (phase 1) non-turbo USDM Ej25s also have DOHC heads.

Ej20g is BC/BF Legacy and early WRX (v1&2). Legacy heads have stub rockers while WRXs have cam-over-buckets. Both of these engines have the 'elbow' turbo inlet like our Ej22ts.

Ej20k is later WRX (v3&4) and is also cam-over-bucket. These engines have the under the manifold turbo inlet. There is also engines in these years Subaru labeled as Ej20g, but should be treated as Ej20ks because electrically and installation-wise that's what they are.

Ej20h is Legacy twin turbo. Electrically these are way out in left field from most other Subarus. But used just for the hardware, not the electrics, it's basically a Ej20k.

I have heard that the 20h heads flow better because they were designed for twin turbo flow. AND they also have an extra set of oil and coolant return lines for the second turbo… which we have no use for and must plug. Doug Vincent has had damn good success with Twin Turbo heads.

USDM phase 1 Ej25 heads are losely based on Ej20k heads. They only need existing bosses drilled and tapped for turbo oil and coolant lines.

The above heads are mostly interchangable because they all accept the same intake manifolds. The 'bolt in/plug-in" deal would be any of the above heads with an Ej20g intake manifold. For our cars the Ej20g intake manifold is prefered becasue it uses comapatable sensors and IAC. It is by all means not the only option.

The Phase 2 SOHC Ej25 head is a very good flowing head, but because it has no provisions for a turbo it seems mostly avoided.

The phase 1 SOHC head is what you have already got on a Ej22t.

Phase 1 and 2 refers to a mild redesign of the block by Subaru about '98. It appears mainly to adrress some problems that cropped up when Subaru 'factory stroked' the Ej20/22 series into the Ej25. Headgasket problems are the most notable. There are numerous improvements but the major ones were a change in the position of the thrust bearing on the crank, the size of the rod journals on Ej25s and structural improvements. As far as heads go there is little to concern yourself with as far as phase1 or 2.

SOHC small valve (EJ22T), SOHC large valve, and DOHC heads make power in different RPM ranges.

Head choice should consider, drivability, RPM limit, power level, turbo choice, compression ratio, boost limit, and just about everything else. It’s a system and all parts need to work together. The best place to start is figure out how you will use the car, and be realistic, building a track car to drive to work every day could be miserable.

To over simplify… bigger valves and more cams tend to produce power at higher RPMs.


17) Short Block Builds

At some point your going to want to build that short block…

Rarely do the bottom ends of these engines go… why? They already have a forged crank and forged rods.

The pistons however are pressure cast, thus not as strong as forged.


…

I have wayyy more on short blocks… but I’m damn tired and I’ll finish it tomorrow.

[BXSS]

Generally speaking
JDM WRX/STi trannys from 93-96 have 4.111 final drives. I had a '95 STi Ra Tranny that was 3.9 FD & DCCD.
97+GC8 WRX/STi & Legacy Twin turbos have 4.444 Final drive trannys while GF8s still had 4.111 FDs
The tranny code sticker on the drivers side bell housing will allow you to look up the exact specs of the tranny you have.
It should read something like this - TY752VBCAA

Ghetto Fueling
A simple way to get additional flow from a set of injectors is an FMU. This device basically allows fuel pressure to rise at a higher proportion than 1:1 with boost. The higher the fuel rise proportion the richer the car will run. Common available ratios are 3:1, 4:1, 6:1, 8:1, 10:1, & 12:1 but a bleed valve can be used to fine tune a plate to the application.
The limiting factor with this type of system will be HIGH fuel pressures/flow requirements that will occur as boost increases.

A SS on stock 370s with a bolt-on turbo upgrade (Not a GT45R) will probably use a 3:1 or 4:1 plate with a bleed valve to fine tune AFRs.
A N/A - Turbo conversion will use a higher ratio rise to get the fueling it needs under boost.

[SubaruNation]

"3.90 LSDs were on 1991 USDM Legacy Turbos. 1992-1994 didn’t have them. "

my car has an lsd and is a 94 wagon.
some cars had them and some dont... DLC said in one of his articles that "you can tell if/not by turning your wheels when the car is raised off the ground"

if only one turns, you dont have limited slip..
if both wheels turn, you have limited slip.

[smh0101]

The wheels, if an open diff, should turn opposite of each other. and we are talking rear wheels. Fronts are open.

If its an lsd it ought to turn the same way.

Everything that I have seen says that ALL post facelift legacys are open rear 3.90 diff... UNLESS of course it was added later which is entirely possible. I'm not saying in any way that you dont have one, but that it isnt factory.

SO if your wheels turned opposite you have open.

[asc_up]

I'm with Spencer on this one Zach. Have you actually tried rotating your wheels to see? Another simpler way is to look on the back of the differential and see if it says "V-LSD."

I believe DLC stated somewhere on his site that ALL 91 SS's came with a V-LSD, and it MIGHT have been an option on later models, but he wasn't sure.

[SubaruNation]

The wheels, if an open diff, should turn opposite of each other. and we are talking rear wheels. Fronts are open.

If its an lsd it ought to turn the same way.

Everything that I have seen says that ALL post facelift legacys are open rear 3.90 diff... UNLESS of course it was added later which is entirely possible. I'm not saying in any way that you dont have one, but that it isnt factory.

SO if your wheels turned opposite you have open.

ja my wheels turned the same way when i lifted the car off the ground to do my brakes. all four wheels (in pairs... back/front duh) turned in unison in the same direction when i was fixing my brakes. that's how i found out.

so meh

I'm with Spencer on this one Zach. Have you actually tried rotating your wheels to see? Another simpler way is to look on the back of the differential and see if it says "V-LSD."

I believe DLC stated somewhere on his site that ALL 91 SS's came with a V-LSD, and it MIGHT have been an option on later models, but he wasn't sure.

yes i have, i Actually HAVE

next time my car breaks or something and i have to lift it off the ground i'll take a picture just for you two

[asc_up]

Lol I believe you. It's just not that common, so I'm just surprised.

[SubaruNation]

k good

[Legacy777]

Zach,

You sure someone didn't add it? The parts book does not list an application for a VLSD on the 92-94 MY's. I even have an updated electronic parts catalog that confirms that.

Can you get the part # off of the diff. Like this
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... P_3009.JPG

I'd be more inclined to believe that someone swapped it in there, then that it came from the factory like that.

[smh0101]

Yeah, me too Zach.

So how is the list looking??

[SubaruNation]

i was wrong?