Hi guys
I'm looking to beef up my braking system before i do any kind of performance mod/upgrades and from searching this forum i've come up with this:
DBA rotors, front and rear sized to fit a 16" rim
slotted rotors (the 6x6 wiper-slot)
front: 294mm
rear: 290mm
cryo treat the rotors before putting them on...overkill?
these rotors should fit under a 16" rim right? looking at josh's brake spreadsheet the 00-04 legacy's had 16 rims with rotors of this size.
Brake calipers
WRX front with 2-pot rear
OR
4-pot front with 2-pot rear
Which one is better or is there not much of a difference?
Are there available brackets/adapter for the car to put the calipers on?
Brake lines:
Goodridge stainless steel braided brake lines or other variant
master cylinder upgrade?
Is the brake pedal travel distance really that apparent after changing the calipers? if so should i change the MC or get a brace?
Brake fluid flush and fill with DOT4 brake fluid or better
Car info:
1991 Legacy L sedan N/A
5spd manual
everything stock except 205/55/R16 rims and tires
brakes are all disc rotors
Non ABS system
After all is said and done, where would i go and find brake calipers and brackets/adapters, stainless steel brake lines, and a MC or brace for the MC.
Brake system overhaul. Suggestions/will this work?
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t3h L3g4cy
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Your upgrade kit looks great but I'd suggest saving some significant money on items that make little difference -
Kragen cheapo rotors
front: 294mm
rear: 290mm
Brake calipers
03+ WRX front (newer pad design)
single pot rear with matching "h6" brackets
Brake lines:
Goodridge stainless steel braided brake lines
Brake fluid flush and fill with DOT5.1 brake fluid
You forgot to list what pads! I suggest Axxis Ultimates.
There are lots of people who track their cars and prefer the cheap rotors since they can be replaced 7+ times for the price of the high end stuff
Kragen cheapo rotors
front: 294mm
rear: 290mm
Brake calipers
03+ WRX front (newer pad design)
single pot rear with matching "h6" brackets
Brake lines:
Goodridge stainless steel braided brake lines
Brake fluid flush and fill with DOT5.1 brake fluid
You forgot to list what pads! I suggest Axxis Ultimates.
There are lots of people who track their cars and prefer the cheap rotors since they can be replaced 7+ times for the price of the high end stuff
Yeah, you definitely don't need to spend all that money on the rotors. Stick with the blanks from autozone or kragen etc.
Ultimates are not bad. I'm on the wrx front / H6 rear sliding calipers and it's a good setup.
the plan is to go to 4-pots eventually and I'm either going with Hawk HP+ or Porterfield R4 pads next time around.
Ultimates are not bad. I'm on the wrx front / H6 rear sliding calipers and it's a good setup.
the plan is to go to 4-pots eventually and I'm either going with Hawk HP+ or Porterfield R4 pads next time around.
I personally don't like changing rotors out, so the extra money for decent (hell OEM rotors are fine in comparison to some of the crap out there) is worth it. Also, I still highly recommend the cryo-treatment, especially if you get crap rotors.
The 4-pot & 2-pot setup will give you better brake pedal feel, but will probably cost more.
As for the master cylinder and pedal travel. That's something that different people have different opinions on. Pedal travel would probably be less noticable with the 4-pot / 2-pot setup.
Since your car is non-abs, the FWD SVX MC is the only upgrade option you have. If you go this route, you will also lose the hill holder.
The 4-pot & 2-pot setup will give you better brake pedal feel, but will probably cost more.
As for the master cylinder and pedal travel. That's something that different people have different opinions on. Pedal travel would probably be less noticable with the 4-pot / 2-pot setup.
Since your car is non-abs, the FWD SVX MC is the only upgrade option you have. If you go this route, you will also lose the hill holder.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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t3h L3g4cy
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Sorry Ciper for not mentioning wat pads i would be using. I'm thinking about EBC's redstuff pads. Previously they were known to be noisy and inefficient until they were warmed up. But now i hear that they aren't noisy when they warm up and cool temperatures don't affect their performance too much.
There are some other things i forgot to mention/ask. With the larger brake rotors will i need a parking brake kit or will the stock parking brake be fine?
I don't think price should be a factor at this point because me and my dad have an agreement. When my car reaches 200k miles my dad will purchase all or most of the parts for me. I will then install the parts. However, this is a one time deal after which i'll have to pay for all of my future parts. He only agreed because it's cheaper than buying a new car.
Also my car is at 201,900 some miles so we're a bit behind. With this in mind I think i'll try the DBA rotors and let u guys know how they perform in daily driving. Once the car's ready for some motor sports i'll give u guys another update. The animation on DBA's website is really convincing -_-
I'm not really that attached to the hill holder and for a year of ownership of the car i didn't even realize wat it was let alone i had one. So if i do notice significant difference in pedal travel i may opt for the SVX MC.
Thanks guys
John
There are some other things i forgot to mention/ask. With the larger brake rotors will i need a parking brake kit or will the stock parking brake be fine?
I don't think price should be a factor at this point because me and my dad have an agreement. When my car reaches 200k miles my dad will purchase all or most of the parts for me. I will then install the parts. However, this is a one time deal after which i'll have to pay for all of my future parts. He only agreed because it's cheaper than buying a new car.
Also my car is at 201,900 some miles so we're a bit behind. With this in mind I think i'll try the DBA rotors and let u guys know how they perform in daily driving. Once the car's ready for some motor sports i'll give u guys another update. The animation on DBA's website is really convincing -_-I think i'll be going for this 4-pot/2-pot setup. Which calipers do i get? Do i just refer back to the brake info sticky? Like for the 294mm front rotors, it lists 2 different thickness as well as the applications for that particular size. Which car would i take the calipers from if i wanted 4-pot in the front and 2-pot in the rear? As for the rear, the caliper i could take are from 00-04 legacy's but wat's non-brighton?The 4-pot & 2-pot setup will give you better brake pedal feel, but will probably cost more.
I'm not really that attached to the hill holder and for a year of ownership of the car i didn't even realize wat it was let alone i had one. So if i do notice significant difference in pedal travel i may opt for the SVX MC.
Thanks guys
John
Just today Mike Shields said "The only thing that stop the car are pads and tires" when trying to convince someone away from Wilwoods or Brembos. The different calipers will change brake feeling for sure but for the most part it comes from the changes in volume.
It reminds me of when I was shopping for a G35. For a short time I considered a used one and did my research comparing the Brembos to the stock brakes. When stopping with cool brakes the Brembos had INCREASED stopping distance!
The parking brakes are only in two sizes that I know of, 170mm and 190mm. Most of the common upgrades retain the original smaller parking brake.
Even if money is not an object it still makes no sense to waste it on parts that will have no improvement in stopping distance for street driving.
The thinner 294mm front rotor is the most common size. You might have trouble fitting new pads/shims if you go for the thicker one but it is possible. I bet you that with the same pads you will see NO difference in stopping distance between the 2 pot and 4 pot fronts when both use a 294mm rotor.
Non brighton means any model except for the absolute base. Brighton is the el cheapo Legacy. They are somewhat rare to be honest.
06 WRX brakes all around would accomplish what you want but you'll need some custom parts. The kartboy 2 piston caliper bracket in the rear and the 18mm thick rotor with the 170mm parking brake.
It would be far easier/cheaper to go with 03 WRX fronts (2 pot) with the stock rotor and 03 caliper rear with the "H6" bracket and rotor. The diameters are the same as the 06WRX spec and you don't have to rely on funky mixes of parts or aftermarket items.
It reminds me of when I was shopping for a G35. For a short time I considered a used one and did my research comparing the Brembos to the stock brakes. When stopping with cool brakes the Brembos had INCREASED stopping distance!
The parking brakes are only in two sizes that I know of, 170mm and 190mm. Most of the common upgrades retain the original smaller parking brake.
Even if money is not an object it still makes no sense to waste it on parts that will have no improvement in stopping distance for street driving.
The thinner 294mm front rotor is the most common size. You might have trouble fitting new pads/shims if you go for the thicker one but it is possible. I bet you that with the same pads you will see NO difference in stopping distance between the 2 pot and 4 pot fronts when both use a 294mm rotor.
Non brighton means any model except for the absolute base. Brighton is the el cheapo Legacy. They are somewhat rare to be honest.
06 WRX brakes all around would accomplish what you want but you'll need some custom parts. The kartboy 2 piston caliper bracket in the rear and the 18mm thick rotor with the 170mm parking brake.
It would be far easier/cheaper to go with 03 WRX fronts (2 pot) with the stock rotor and 03 caliper rear with the "H6" bracket and rotor. The diameters are the same as the 06WRX spec and you don't have to rely on funky mixes of parts or aftermarket items.
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internetautomart
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my .02 on pads
the Axxis Ultimate is a "Ceramic" pad. While different Ceramics from different companies have different characteristics, I have typically been happier with the stopping ability of a GOOD semi-metallic. The drawbacks of a Semi-met pad being dusting and noise on occasion.
the Axxis Ultimate is a "Ceramic" pad. While different Ceramics from different companies have different characteristics, I have typically been happier with the stopping ability of a GOOD semi-metallic. The drawbacks of a Semi-met pad being dusting and noise on occasion.
94 BC w/ AWD Sold 6/25/08
92 BJ Rust bucket gone
90 BC (I think) Stripper, gone since 2k
86 GL10 Turbo 4wd, Gone since 99
92 BJ Rust bucket gone
90 BC (I think) Stripper, gone since 2k
86 GL10 Turbo 4wd, Gone since 99
I'm currently running the EBC red stuff pads on my impreza. They're decent pads, probably on par with the older axxis metal masters I ran. If I had to do over again, I'd probably get the yellow stuff pads. EBC has gone a long way to improve their pads.
Price needs to be a factor. Just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's better. While I agree the DBA rotors are very nice, they're a waste of money for a street driven car IMO.
If it were me, I'd go for the 06 WRX brakes, which are the 4-pot & 2-pot calipers. As mentioned you'll need Kartboys 2-pot caliper bracket.
Price needs to be a factor. Just because something costs more, doesn't mean it's better. While I agree the DBA rotors are very nice, they're a waste of money for a street driven car IMO.
If it were me, I'd go for the 06 WRX brakes, which are the 4-pot & 2-pot calipers. As mentioned you'll need Kartboys 2-pot caliper bracket.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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t3h L3g4cy
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Ok....from all these comments the DBA rotors are back to the drawing board. But i will keep with the 4-pot / 2-pot setup. Specifically all wheels get 06 WRX brake calipers just to keep things less complicated.
I know i need some brackets and found some kartboy brackets but r they supposed to be $195?
http://www.turbowholesale.com/catalog/- ... -5747.html
The sticky claims that 290mmx18mm can use a 170mm parking brake. I heard that my car has stock 266mmx10mm rear rotors that has 170mm parking brake so i won't need to adjust anything?
John
I know i need some brackets and found some kartboy brackets but r they supposed to be $195?
http://www.turbowholesale.com/catalog/- ... -5747.html
The sticky claims that 290mmx18mm can use a 170mm parking brake. I heard that my car has stock 266mmx10mm rear rotors that has 170mm parking brake so i won't need to adjust anything?
John
The adapters are expensive. http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7905t3h L3g4cy wrote:I know i need some brackets and found some kartboy brackets but r they supposed to be $195?
http://www.turbowholesale.com/catalog/- ... -5747.html
The sticky claims that 290mmx18mm can use a 170mm parking brake. I heard that my car has stock 266mmx10mm rear rotors that has 170mm parking brake so i won't need to adjust anything?
You might have to "tighten" the parking brake since the rotors are new but otherwise you're good to go.
Edit: There are at least two alternatives to KartBoy. One of them is not only cheaper but seems to fit better! Read all three pages of this thread to understand how crappy kartboy treats competition. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1378673