Feedback on potential 2005 GT Limited purchase

[Siper2]

Hey guys.

I am currently considering an '05 LGT Limited, SWP, 5MT for purchase. This car will replace my '00 2.5RS sedan, AW, 5MT which I bought new. I will miss my car, but am thinking that an LGT makes more sense. I want to swap my RS with an EJ205, however the LGT already trumps it in torque. Not to mention refinement, looks, safety, space, age........ the list goes on.

So, the particular car has 84K mi. Yes, a lot. It was a one-owner car, used as a commuter between PA and northern NY. It was traded for a BMW and then sold to auction. A fellow I know from northern PA bought it via his garage. He and his boss have a dealer license, and purchase vehicles for refurb and resale. They also modify and tune for customers, and are getting more and more in to the Subaru market.

My wife and I went and drove the car, on Friday. The engine, brakes and suspension all felt fine. It has the OEM rear spoiler fitted. The interior has the dimming mirror/compass, a short shifter and what looks like the OEM subwoofer under the driver's seat. I don't know what shifter it is, but my guess is STi; the other options lead me to believe that the owner spec'ed out a few things. Interior is in good shape, not excellent. No tears, but there's scuffs on the driver's bolster and the vinyl doesn't appear to have been treated often, if at all. (I Vinylex/Lexol my car regularly, so I'm picky.)

The exterior is in good shape, other than a couple paint chips that were badly covered with touch-up paint. I know a painter who can probably fix those spots. No dents that I noticed.

The engine bay is causing some commotion on RS25 and LegacyGT.com where I've also posted photos. There's some rust on a couple of areas, and more excessive oxidation than I'd expect. My hunch is that it sat on the BMW lot for a while. The seller has an ASE mechanic and said he can have any repairs/changes done that I like, at cost with no markup.

I dispatched an email to a dealership near where the car is, to see what they charge for "pre-purchase inspection" type of visits/checks. If it's reasonable I may pay for that to be done, for a third party opinion. I also asked if they could run the VIN for any outstanding recalls. I found out about #02-103-07 for the turbo and a banjo bolt issue of some sort. The CarFax came back clean, with "no outstanding recalls," however they don't always show up.

Sorry to be long-winded, I'm always like that.
Here's the deal with the price: $12K even. Selling my RS for about $6K, plus some new Prodrive and STi parts I never installed.
Loan will be about $5K, give or take, and around $135/mo. The way I see it.... the RS swap would be $4-6K, and would never be as nice as an LGT. The older it gets, the more it will take, and though I'd love to keep it as a project/track car maybe, I don't have the space or time in my life.

So! Here's some photos we took:



Touch-up spot:



Engine bay:






I saw the coolant reservoir... was assured that it doesn't leak:





























I think it's a very nice car. There's more pristine examples, but most are at least $5K more. I've bought from this fellow before; my sister-in-law got her '98 Legacy Brighton wagon from him. It's a good car, so far. He bought this GT for personal use or to modify for resale, but decided to focus on his WRX build instead. The car wasn't listed for sale yet, but he knows of my love for white cars. And decided to torture me with a few teaser pics.


So, opinions welcome. Thanks, chaps. I have the CarFax available for anyone who'd like to see it. I don't think I can upload files here, not sure.
S2

[PhyrraM]

While I love the LGTs, I'd be over this one with a fine tooth comb.

I'm in California, so take this for what it's worth, but that amount of corrosion in the engine compartment on on other-wise clean car is sending up my red-flag. Some of our east-coast brethern can maybe call BS on me though.

I, personally, have never seen anything like that on such a young car. I'm not even sure what would cause that. Underwater? Spent the winter in a snow-bank?

But otherwise, if you can contend (explain to your satifaction) with the engine bay, it sounds like a great deal. I'd buy it, after a extended inspection.

Edit: Looking at it again, maybe it has the motor changed. It if it did, the new motor sat outside at the wrecker for a while. Do Subarus put the vin on the block these days?

[Siper2]

That's the one factor that's been raising flags with other folks, too. The car was driven a lot, and in rather rotten conditions... However I lived in NH, before I came to PA. Most of PA may as well be tropical, next to an NH winter. My RS' engine bay is not as bad as the GT's looks.

So... I'm not sure. My only thought is that the car might've sat on the BMW lot prior to being auctioned, for a long time. The CarFax states:

9/14/2007: 83,012mi. - PA Motor Vehicle Dept
Title issued or updated
Dealer took title of this vehicle while it was in inventory

9/02/2008: Subaru of America - No recalls open for repair


So... it could've sat for quite a long time. That's about all I can think of.

So I'm trying to think of things that the guy's ASE mechanic can service/repair, prior to my picking it up. I've never owned a turbo car, so I'm not sure what should be considered.

The current owner ensured me that it wasn't a flood/water damage car. He sent this along:

The auction has protocols for that in place and cars are screened before they are sold. If this car was sold down in New Orleans, then retitled in PA, yea maybe check it out. But it was a one owner car from PA, that was serviced in Syracuse, NY, so it was driven alot in snow belt country. Plus, given the only owner drove the car 35k miles a year, alot of that by sheer driving numbers had to be in the snow. That would account for any surface rust on the engine as pictured. It really isn't anything that out of the ordinary and has no reflection on the inside of the engine.

The blue legacy GT I have down here has similar corrosion on the engine. The oil feed pipe is completely oxidized and rusted on the back and is starting to move to the front identically to the way the white one is. Similar cars, similar mileage, etc etc. Even the level of the coolant overflow tank is about the same.

[Siper2]

For a little photo comparison, my RS often had/has to deal with this:




...And this is the most recent engine bay shot series, when I installed my RalliTEK wires:








2000 2.5RS, 156K mi.

Here's a few pics that are about two years old (older than the above):











This is also an N/A car... The "other Legacy" that the owner was talking about, is a blue '05 GT non-Ltd. that he's also selling.

Click above for the full listing, but here's the engine shot of the blue car:

[PhyrraM]

Dealers generally don't sit on cars. There is a reason the dealer held the car for so long. It could be title related, accident, safety, etc..etc.. The answer might hold the key? I still call BS on the rust, unless a few snow-belt members will vouch for the story.

I would look at similer bolt that would not be part of an engine swap. Suspension, strut, fueltank straps. Those kinds of things. If they show the same corrosion then maybe the engine stuff is normal after all. But if those bolts are clean, it would confirm a 'new' motor in my eyes.

[Siper2]

Well the car is about 90 min. north of me, I was able to see it Friday because they drove it down toward my neck of the woods. They have a second location there, where they keep some other vehicles that come from the auto auction (Manheim, PA).

[shtbxr22]

buy it. you got my two cents.

[94SS_Canada]

Dont buy it, It dosent look as clean as you might Expect, It dosent take much to clean up the dash and take some pics, The carpets looked collected in dirt i know thats normal but i know i keep mine clean and living in Canada We left my brothers 96 legacy in pieces we did some minor work and it fired right up and didnt have any of the rust, What my opinion is, Water damage as far as im concerned, Ditch it.

Thats my 2 cents!

[94SS_Canada]

Also Forgot to mention, the crank pulley is fairly rusty for a car of that age Showing me lack of use and outdoor storage

[Siper2]

Crank pulley is rusty yeah, but it looks similar to the pics from my RS, above. It's some of the other stuff that's a little weird...

I sent the VIN to a dealer to see if they could pull a record better than CarFax, we'll see if they can.

The carpet was pretty good. Mine's got a huge hole in it, so anything's an improvement.

I know it's not a 10/10 I'm just really confused about some of this rust stuff. Some say it's okay, just replace the parts... others are more concerned. I know, it's the internet, nobody agrees. The owner assures me there's no water damage, and he's right that this would've had to be reported to the auction group.

[Legacy777]

At first glance it looks like a pretty nice car. But like everyone else said.....that's a lot of corrosion on the engine for being a 2005. I was pretty surprised. I lived in PA for about 4 years, and even on my uncle's vehicles that were driven a lot, the engine bay didn't look like that.

I don't quite know what would cause that much corrosion in that short amount of time. Even if it was driven a lot, the engine bay indicates it wasn't really taken care of much. All it takes is hosing the engine bay down with water to get rid of the salt every now and then....but yeah that's just a lot. Plus trying to work on any of that stuff, it's going to super suck.

[Siper2]

Thanks. I emailed the guy this morning and told him I definitely want the mechanic to look at it. The Subaru dealership in town says it's $35 for a pre-purchase "inspection" visit. I'm also finding out if they're willing to drop it by.

[sebazztard]

thats a lot of rust for how "new" it is. our 98 is still spotless and been through 2 winters in our ownership, no rust at all and not garage kept. i would have it looked over underneath and see whats going on with rust there. interior looks clean, outside looks clean. its a beautful car, i would def own one. what did they want for it anyway, sorry if i over read it.

[Siper2]

$12,000

[quicklook]

i would pass on this vehicle.

something is just not right.

[Siper2]

Currently the ASE mechanic (who works at a local dealership) is running a compression/leakdown test to check that out. He will replace the one rusty line that sticks out, there.

I'm thinking plugs should be changed (NGK), and I also requested that the tranny fluid be flushed with Uncle Scotty's cocktail.

I told him to check the turbo and intercooler too, I don't know the specifics though. When I find out the results of the compression/leakdown I may move forward a bit.

I agree that the rust is fishy, but this IS a guy I trust, and there's a certified mechanic working on the car. I know I can go to him with any issues. Really can't deny that the price is great; in fact it's selling for a little less than what I stated.

[quicklook]

i can't even trust my older brother.

i will say again:

something is not right.

if it looks like a pig no dressing it up will make it anything else.

[Siper2]

Sounds like you have brother issues, hah.

I know it's funky, that's why I've posted it here, on LegacyGT.com, and on RS25. Lots of agreements on the rust, but that's also why I've had the seller do a lot of work on this for me. Everything will be contingent upon the mechanic's report. And I still may have a dealership check it out. Which he's willing to do.

If he'd said no to all of that, then yeah I would wash my hands of it. Obviously.

[quicklook]

my brother has been a thief since he was 21 years old and 40+ years later he is still a thief including stealing from my mother and our church.

back to the car: i looked it up on kbb and it puts it at between $9000 to 12,000.

so the price is in the ball park but for $12,000 it would have to be excellent which the rust detracts.

so it is around a $10,000 or a little more vehicle.

sounds like you are doing the right stuff but i hope it works out for you.

any pics of the underside of the car?

[Siper2]

No, I looked under the rear before we left, and thought of trying to get the camera under there, but I wasn't sure if I could get anything that would really come out.

Looked okay I think, a couple parts a bit rusty but I'm also used to looking at the underside of my Impreza.


Sorry about your bro, that's sad.

[quicklook]

make sure your mechanic gets it up on the lift and looks at everything.

try to get him to take pics or go there and do it yourself.

[Siper2]

Yeah, it's about 90-120 min. north of me, I forget how far exactly. Depending on how thorough an explanation I get, we'll see if I need to go up.

I hate to even post it here (y'know in case someone grabs it!!), but I'm considering this mint 2006 GT as well. Thing is, that's priced much higher. Still, if I can swing it..... at all......... obviously I'd rather have that one.

[Siper2]

The ASE mechanic looked at the car yesterday and thinks it's in really good shape. The owner also ran it to Subaru to have one of their techs give a third-party opinion. They saw no issues and thought that the rust was cosmetic. The owner told me that Subaru confirmed that a compression/leakdown shouldn't be necessary to run, since the engine seemed to run very smoothly.

However he's willing to have the mechanic run the c/l test anyway, if I want. I told him yes, I would probably end up having it done anyway. So may as well do it now. So I should know about that soon.

(The mechanic I guess has been working for about 30 years, and bought a garage several years ago that was recently purchased by the Ford dealership he also works for. So now he manages the garage as well, and is like the lead tech there. So that's cool.)

I asked that the oil line, or whatever it is that's really rusty in that pic, be replaced. No problem there, either. I talked with the owner over the phone last night for a while, as well. The car was a "green light" car at the auction, meaning I guess that it had a background title check and had no issues reported. The auction is also required to buy green light cars back within one week, if the car doesn't run right. There's also yellow light (questionable) and red light (shady) cars that are sold, I assume at greater risk.

I always have trusted the guy, but some of this does ease things, regardless.

[BXSS]

I'm in NYC & do not have that much rust on my engine, but our winters are pretty mild.

CarFax will refund you 110% of the KBB value if you buy a car that turns out to be salvaged.
But honestly if something were wrong that would cause corrosion (like flood damage) the first thing a tricky SOB would do is replace everything thats rusty.

The car looks nice.
List the pros & cons of both cars, if the compression & everything else check out OK go for it if the price break is big enough compared to the '06 to make the deal worth-while.

84K on a '05 is alot of miles for the model year but not really alot of miles (if it were a '00 with 84k it would be spot on in terms of mileage).

[Siper2]

84K is a lot for an '05 but I put 25K on my RS, every year, for the first 4 years I had it. I was past my OEM warranty in like 18 months.

The '06 is absolutely mint, I mean 10K miles and babied, garaged... obviously the nicer car. But payments are like $310/mo. versus $135/mo. which is a big difference.