Yet another head question please

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:28 pm

Here is a link with just about every head with a reference item in the port or a pair of heads in the same frame to show the size of things (Dan - you may know this guy as he is from Mn).

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.p ... comparison

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:05 pm

Matt Monson wrote:Are you kidding me?

What is that supposed to mean? We can have a reasonable debate and get to the bottom of this, or sling mud.

Here is a link with just about every head with a reference item in the port or a pair of heads in the same frame to show the size of things (Dan - you may know this guy as he is from Mn).

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.p ... comparison

I know Fuji. He's quite the character, I'll say that.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:36 pm

Hey man I am doing the same (swap to 25d heads) And I worked at a suby dealership. Gotta say matt is correct. THe diameter of the shimless buckets are much larger and would require you machine out around the valve spring to make it work. I almost id do that and also considered welding the shims.

Cant just swap the new buckets in. Sorry.

Quirt Crawford reported taking the stock valvetrain on some ej25d heads to 8000 rpm with no problems. That put my at ease for mine...

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:10 pm

bmxpunk wrote:Quirt Crawford reported taking the stock valvetrain on some ej25d heads to 8000 rpm with no problems. That put my at ease for mine...

Dumb question, but that is referenced from Crawford Performance?

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:46 pm

dropdfocus wrote:
bmxpunk wrote:Quirt Crawford reported taking the stock valvetrain on some ej25d heads to 8000 rpm with no problems. That put my at ease for mine...
Dumb question, but that is referenced from Crawford Performance?

I found it on nasioc. I believe it was quirt himself but its been a while since I saw it.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:55 am

bmxpunk wrote:Hey man I am doing the same (swap to 25d heads) And I worked at a suby dealership. Gotta say matt is correct. THe diameter of the shimless buckets are much larger and would require you machine out around the valve spring to make it work. I almost id do that and also considered welding the shims.

Cant just swap the new buckets in. Sorry.

Are you sure? Why don't you be sure you've got a really good caliper and measure them and come back with the numbers and I'll give them to my engine builder buddy and have him confirm that they work.

Sorry. I just couldn't help myself.

Xephyr used to rev his car to 7500rpm all day long before he switched to SOHC Ej25 heads. He was pushing 25+psi through his turbo. He was making 380whp. And those same exact heads are still in his NA car to this day with HKS v3 STi cams and I've personally revved the thing to 7800 rpm.

And that's just one of many Colorado locals I can point to that revved the shit out of those heads. No-Coast-Punk. Drac9. And pretty much any car that JC sports built back in the day. I can count the number of spit shim failures I have seen from a Subaru in the nearly 10 years I've been at this on one hand. It just doesn't happen unless some misassembles an engine or doesn't get the lash right. It's one of those myths that just refuses to die.

iluvdrt · Post by **iluvdrt** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:30 am

I agree with Matt. Mine hits the limiter VERY often and I am good to go. (I have the EJ25D as well. 98 Legacy GT)
I think they will be OK.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:32 pm

Ej25D buckets: 30mm diameter

New style shimless buckets: 35mm diameter

they definitely are NOT going to work with out some serious machine work.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:40 am

Alright. Matt is right in that the newer style does not work with 25D heads. In the research I did online ( yeah, I know) I found that the newer style buckets to be 1.220 in in diameter. I measured my 25D buckets to be 1.259 in in diameter. That .039" is a major problem. That means the newer style buckets will have much extra slop in wall clearance and that is not acceptable.

It is too bad honestly, because the lighter weight of the shimless buckets would have been nice, but oh well. I'm not worried about redline and ultimate revability, but I would have liked to use launch control and that seems to be when people have popped a shim. If I cannot use use launch control, its not the end of the world. My foot works just fine.

Sorry if I caused some drama. I just do not accept internet word as proof without numbers. Being a dork, that is how I am.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:26 pm

93forestpearl wrote:Sorry if I caused some drama. I just do not accept internet word as proof without numbers. Being a dork, that is how I am.

In all honesty the only thing that caused any drama was your attitude. It was pretty rude to suggest that I had to go get the parts and measure them and proove it to you. If you wanted empirical proof, the right thing to do would have been to measure them yourself, as you eventually did, and post back with you findings. But the way you treated me was insulting and thus the way I treated you back.

I have done my time around here. I am not just some guy on the internet making shit up. The people here know that I do not talk out my arse, back up my claims and provide lots and lots of empirical data to go with them. I do not regurgitate something that I read somewhere else.I do not generally open my mouth unless I KNOW something. If I am guessing or have a hunch, I make it clear that I am just thinking out loud and encourage you to further research what I am putting out there for people to contemplate. In short, I have earned a bit more respect than you treated me with.

And I do appreciate you coming back and apologizing. I'm not always right, and when I am wrong I admit it. It says a lot about you that you can do the same.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:43 pm

I didn't mean to come across that way. I just went off what an experienced builder told me, and I probably shouldn't have. The more and more I mess with this stuff the more I get burned on what people tell me. I guess that is why I question what people tell me when there are no numbers involved. Not that I don't respect the fact that you've been in this game for a long time as well and know your stuff. I've never questioned that. I just have a hard time accepting something when someone tells me "that's how it is" or something like that. That's just my personality. I do see how it can annoy people sometimes.

I only asked you to measure the newer style because I don't have access to any at the moment. Sorry if you thought I was trying to have you do my dirty work for me.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:42 pm

93forestpearl wrote:Alright. Matt is right in that the newer style does not work with 25D heads. In the research I did online ( yeah, I know) I found that the newer style buckets to be 1.220 in in diameter. I measured my 25D buckets to be 1.259 in in diameter. That .039" is a major problem. That means the newer style buckets will have much extra slop in wall clearance and that is not acceptable.

It is too bad honestly, because the lighter weight of the shimless buckets would have been nice, but oh well. I'm not worried about redline and ultimate revability, but I would have liked to use launch control and that seems to be when people have popped a shim. If I cannot use use launch control, its not the end of the world. My foot works just fine.

Sorry if I caused some drama. I just do not accept internet word as proof without numbers. Being a dork, that is how I am.

Man what car did you get the shimless bucket from? I have one of each sitting in front of me and newstyle bucket is definitely larger in diameter than the my 25D bucket.

I think you have your numbers above backwards...

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:43 pm

Ok, now that everyone has kissed & made up, we can get on to the nitty gritty again...

Right?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:14 pm

bmxpunk wrote:
Man what car did you get the shimless bucket from? I have one of each sitting in front of me and newstyle bucket is definitely larger in diameter than the my 25D bucket.

I think you have your numbers above backwards...

Hmmmmm. 1.220" is a number I found online on Brian Crower's website. http://www.briancrower.com/makes/subaru/ej205.shtml

So that is not accurate. Figures.

So the newer style is significantly larger. If one was really bored and liked spending money on machine work, you could bore the holes for newer style buckets, granted you could get the right sizes of buckets. Not really practical though.

I'll just check the lash on my heads, adjust if necessary, and throw them on since I was nervous for no reason. On the bright side, this saves me $300 in buckets.

dropdfocus · Post by **dropdfocus** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:34 pm

Ditto, but I picked up complete EJ20G heads anyways for DIRT cheap! Gotta love the Internet.

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Yet another head question please