I did a leak down test on my engine (DOHC EJ20H) and the results were 20-30% leakage on 3 cylinders, 70% leakage on number 2 cylinder which I could easily hear that most of it was coming from the exhaust valves.
I'm worried about this and I'd like to have the heads worked on and whatever else is necessary or convienent while the heads are off.
If this were your motor, what would you do? Should I do anything with the internals or port and polish the heads or anything else I should do?
I want a strong motor that will make me smile when I put my foot down.
I'm willing to wait a long time to get my car running as long as I know it's gonna be a solid engine and I won't have to take it out again for a while.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
That all depends on what you want out of it and what you are willing to spend.
Do you want a bomb-proof 2.65 L bottom for about $5k in parts and machine work, or do you want something that will handle about 300whp for some time to come? It's not that much more stuff to go through the bottom end to freshen it up. A few O-rings, piston rings, a light hone and bearings and you'll be there. And a tube of ultra-grey.
OK well since I have been waiting already since september to drive my car, I can wait quite a bit longer. Which means I can save some money for this.
Lets say $800 in parts and labor. How hard is it to remove pistons or do I just take my engine to the shop...that's gonna be a lot of money paying them $60-75 per hour.
I want it to be pretty quick of course. But at the same time I drive a 3 cylinder metro so I don't have to have a 10 second car.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
This weekend I can post a picture of my homemade piston pin removal tool, or you can knock them out from the other side with a long tool or shaft of some sort. I suggest you do some serious reading on how these motors come apart and go together. Read the FSM and get familiar with the process, because having some knowledge beforehand will save you a ton of time.
Even if you can tear it down before they hone, clean, and assemble it, that would save you a decent amount of scratch.
I was going to buy myself the FSM for 91 SS after christmas. It's for sale for like $110 shipped.
What about the oil pump and water pump? I just put those on(brand new). They don't need to be removed for this do they?
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
Their prices are actually pretty reasonable, I believe you'd have to send them your old cams as well. Not sure exactly. A set of cams for my SOHC heads was around $170 ish. Then you have to throw in another $20 to get them shipped. But they are right there, I think they are in washington or oregon so shipping would be hardly anything for you.
I just did a refreshment on my engine a couple months back, and the engines really aren't any more advanced than any other 4 cylinder, just a little harder to work on, especially when putting the halves back together and getting the piston pins in. But yeah I agree with Dan, do some reading in the FSM's and on this board first so that you have a good base of knowledge before you start tearing into things.
Douglas Vincent has videos of removing/installing pistons and I think some other engine work. Very informative for someone that hasn't torn into one of these engines.
Alright, so lets assume DOHC cams are $340. I was quoted $235 for the valve work using stock valves. Up around $600 before honing and new rings. So maybe $1,000 is a more appropriate budget.
Do I use the stock valves?
Here's what I've spent on this motor already:
EJ20H Motor Build
-----------------
Part Price Shipping Total
EJ20H Engine $300.00 $ 0.00 $300.00
Oil Pump $115.16 $12.95 $137.37
Water Pump $ 86.36 $12.95 $ 86.36
Front Crank Seal $ 6.17 $ 0.00 $ 6.17
-------------------------------------------------
Total $1281.81
So I'm going to roughly estimate that after honing, new rings, valvework and delta cams It's going to cost around $2,300+ for the engine build. That's a lot of money. I knew I didn't want to know how much I'm into this...lol
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
Should I do the honing and new rings now or skip that too? I really want to drive my car. lol Especially since we have 3-4 inches of snow on the ground right now. I'm gonna have to put chains on my metro to get up the hill I live on.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
a local machine shop cleaned both block halves, primed them, checked the bores and then honed them, then checked the crank, balanced it, and polished it, all for $90.
it only took them 2 days to do that, so now the engine is ready to get back together as soon as I get some free time and off my butt.
OBTW I had a local head shop clean/flatten/rebuild/3 angle grind + new guides for $380, I didnt do anything with the heads except unbolt them from the motor and take them to the place.
removing the pistons is easy from the backside (pounding out the pins). I had a post recently about it, I cut off a long drill bit to use as a punch. You will probably find the piston tops are disgusting, so cleaning them up, cleaning all the ring grooves, and then a fresh hone + new rings will make great compression and last a long time.
to get to honing and new rings, it is easiest with the motor apart like it is now. Crank bearings are not that pricey either, you can get ACL race bearings on fleabay. You've still got a great motor build going there, that is not a whole lot of cash for a good motor like that.
12 Outback 3.6R Limited
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$90? Really, that sounds really cheap. I haven't called about the honing because I've been snowed in. We're having a crazy(for western washington)snow storm. There's like a foot of snow on the ground. Usually we got snow a couple times a year 1-2 inches. I'm stranded here. I got crazy yesterday and drove my chevy metro 20 miles to Lacey and bought some studded snow tires. Almost got stuck on my road on the way home because it was so deep I was getting high centered. I kind of feel like that was a waste of money now.
If I hadn't sold my 90 NA AWD wagon with studded snow tires on it, I would be mobbin through the snow. That thing was unstoppable in the snow.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
Yeah I'm sure it varies from shop to shop and location in the country.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
I would suggest a full rebuild and cleaning. Keep it simple as far as the bottom end goes. New rings and bearings, crank polish, honing, balancing (only $40) a nice gasket kit and have a shop assemble the bottom end. For the top end go new oversize valves, lifters, and a set of springs seats and retainers. You're this far along may as well go all out but not breaking the bank. Cams can be installed at any point so that's up to you. Porting sounds too extreme for dohc heads and a street car. Doing that you will lose port velocity and a significant amount of torque. I know a few engine builders up here, including a shop that mainly builds race engines. Hope this helps.
So are you from delta cam or another shop? Could you give me an estimate of how much all that will cost and would I have to take it to another shop to have it assembled or can you do that too?
Also, would I have to buy all the parts or will the shop order them?
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
kimokalihi wrote:So are you from delta cam or another shop? Could you give me an estimate of how much all that will cost and would I have to take it to another shop to have it assembled or can you do that too?
Also, would I have to buy all the parts or will the shop order them?
From Victory Lap Motorsports. Spoke with Delta Cam a while back for my ej22t cams. For about six hundred the bottom end machining balancing and assembly. Haven't checked on subaru head machining yet. I usually work with my race engine builder when he isn't busy. Around this time of year is best. Give me a call and I can give a full quote. I need to know exactly what your goals are or useage for an accurate quote to match your needs.
Is that in marysville? That's 2 hours from here. Quite the drive. Tacoma is an hour.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson
tturnpaw,
If you want to try and get this guy's business, please send him a PM. This is a tech thread where people are trying to discuss tech. I know that you are trying to be helpful, but soliciting business in the tech forum is something that I frown on. Any further attempts to trump up business will result in posts being deleted. You have a PM button for a reason. Use it.
1974 Porsche 914 Cam Am Limted Edition AKA the Bumble Bee
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1999 2.5RS w/ 50+ extra whp
Suby Hai!
