in my 91ss i still have the 5mt. stock engine. the trans is shot and i would like to get another. but i don't konw what i want. i want something that does nice on the highway, but real good for rallycross and just some solo type stuff. i don't want to sound like a retard and say i want an sti tranny but i would like something with closer gears. i am building an engine for 300hp, with some good torque. so do i even need a 6mt if i can pull the gears with a 5mt at 300hp+-?
also is there a legacy 6mt?
5 or a 6
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race_to_live
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5 or a 6
-91ss, 250,000mi rebuilt, tmic, tdo4, agx's w/groundcontrol, f/r strut bars, rust
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
This is a question without an answer, assuming you mean 300chp.
You need to do a lot of searching and exploring to figure out your path. A good solid 5mt will hold 300hp but there's also plenty of reports of stock WRX's breaking their 5mt at only 230chp. And then there's guys like Doug V. running 300-400 on NA 4.11 boxes.
A 6mt is definately stronger, in stock form. This means it will reliably take more abuse - on average.
You also need to figure out how much money you are willing to spend.
Also, there is no Legacy 6mt. There is just the Subaru 6mt. The have been putting it in the new Spec B Legacy.
Further, there are a couple variants of the 6mt with different ratios. Some of them will change small items such as your seals and axles.
Long story short, a 6mt swap requires more work and more research into everything required. A 5mt will be cheaper, but may or may not suit you.
I usually won't say this, but spend some time on Nabisco as there's more info there regarding the tranny's than there is here.
You need to do a lot of searching and exploring to figure out your path. A good solid 5mt will hold 300hp but there's also plenty of reports of stock WRX's breaking their 5mt at only 230chp. And then there's guys like Doug V. running 300-400 on NA 4.11 boxes.
A 6mt is definately stronger, in stock form. This means it will reliably take more abuse - on average.
You also need to figure out how much money you are willing to spend.
Also, there is no Legacy 6mt. There is just the Subaru 6mt. The have been putting it in the new Spec B Legacy.
Further, there are a couple variants of the 6mt with different ratios. Some of them will change small items such as your seals and axles.
Long story short, a 6mt swap requires more work and more research into everything required. A 5mt will be cheaper, but may or may not suit you.
I usually won't say this, but spend some time on Nabisco as there's more info there regarding the tranny's than there is here.
Lee
93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.
93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.
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race_to_live
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the main reason i ask about a 6mt is because a friend of mine has an older wrx that he built and is pushing a bit over 330. just a few weeks ago he broke the 5mt that was in the car. second gear is totally gone. he was thinking along the same path as i am so i guess im trying to find out info for the both of us. no matter what i get i really would like to spend the coin and put some good parts in it. and the same for him.
-91ss, 250,000mi rebuilt, tmic, tdo4, agx's w/groundcontrol, f/r strut bars, rust
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
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93forestpearl
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I have an '05 6mt in mine and I like it a lot. The ratios are pretty close, but 5th and 6th are spaced out a bit more than 1-4. 4th gets me to about 95 mph iirc, at 6500rpm.
If you were going to take the plunge, I'd suggest an '06 or newer box as the syncro design and hub engagement was updated. Mine could use a set of syncros at the moment. Not the end of the world, and its better than ripping gear teeth off. I can still drive it just fine, its just the hard 1-2 it doesn't like when hot. You only really use that if you are trying to drag race anyways.
If you were going to take the plunge, I'd suggest an '06 or newer box as the syncro design and hub engagement was updated. Mine could use a set of syncros at the moment. Not the end of the world, and its better than ripping gear teeth off. I can still drive it just fine, its just the hard 1-2 it doesn't like when hot. You only really use that if you are trying to drag race anyways.
→Dan
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93forestpearl
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PPG makes a multitude of gearsets. Most common is for the WRX case. There is a set availible for the SS case, but if I recall Phil correctly, it is significantly more expensive due to it only being availible in a dog engagement setup.
At this point, a PPG box will still be significantly more expensive than finding an '04 or '05 6mt and the associated parts.
At this point, a PPG box will still be significantly more expensive than finding an '04 or '05 6mt and the associated parts.
→Dan
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555BCTurbo
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93forestpearl
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Suck for what? Drag racing, yes. Frumrollz, yes.
Aside from that, they work just fine. They have worked well for me because I really don't get down on either of the previous. They seem to work just fine for autoX and roadcourse duty. I really don't see the stigma behind your statement.
For drag and highway pulls, yes, the 6mt is not ideal. But the fact of the matter is, the 6mt is a much much much better designed transmission through and through. The actual gearbox part of the 5mt dates back to the 80's. If you crack open many of the EA tranny's, you'll see identical parts.
There is nothing wrong with a built five speed. They work just fine. If you are trying to acquire a solid transmission on a budget, a new PPG gearset is not the cost effective alternative. Plain and simple. If you can find one used for a good price, more power to you. It is a much rarer occurrence than finding a used 6 speed.
Either way, one cannot go wrong with both. Its just a matter of application and wallet, and the wallet seems to have a larger say than anything else.
Aside from that, they work just fine. They have worked well for me because I really don't get down on either of the previous. They seem to work just fine for autoX and roadcourse duty. I really don't see the stigma behind your statement.
For drag and highway pulls, yes, the 6mt is not ideal. But the fact of the matter is, the 6mt is a much much much better designed transmission through and through. The actual gearbox part of the 5mt dates back to the 80's. If you crack open many of the EA tranny's, you'll see identical parts.
There is nothing wrong with a built five speed. They work just fine. If you are trying to acquire a solid transmission on a budget, a new PPG gearset is not the cost effective alternative. Plain and simple. If you can find one used for a good price, more power to you. It is a much rarer occurrence than finding a used 6 speed.
Either way, one cannot go wrong with both. Its just a matter of application and wallet, and the wallet seems to have a larger say than anything else.
→Dan
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m
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race_to_live
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the wallet now has an even bigger say in what i get. haha.
but now here is the real question, does a 6mt just fit. i have done some searching but i reallly dont know what im talking about. 93forestpearl i think i sent you a PM
but now here is the real question, does a 6mt just fit. i have done some searching but i reallly dont know what im talking about. 93forestpearl i think i sent you a PM
-91ss, 250,000mi rebuilt, tmic, tdo4, agx's w/groundcontrol, f/r strut bars, rust
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
Does a 6mt physically just fit - yeah with the right mounts.
But you need to start watching about matching up your axles and hubs, making sure your axles match up to the tranny seals properly. You need new shift linkage. You need a DCCD controller.
I'm not trying to detere you, a 6mt is a solid route to take. Just understand it is NOT a standard 'plug and play' like the 5mt is. You really should do some more research to see if you're ready and understanding of the $3-4k you're going to drop on it.
But you need to start watching about matching up your axles and hubs, making sure your axles match up to the tranny seals properly. You need new shift linkage. You need a DCCD controller.
I'm not trying to detere you, a 6mt is a solid route to take. Just understand it is NOT a standard 'plug and play' like the 5mt is. You really should do some more research to see if you're ready and understanding of the $3-4k you're going to drop on it.
Lee
93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.
93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.
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93forestpearl
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^ This is correct.
I just realized my inbox was full, so I never received a message, I think, but am not sure as I got slightly lit last night. I can elaborate here.
For front axles, depending on how early of a model, you may or not may have stubs in the tranny already. If not, $100 for stubs plus seals to rectify that to use your original axles.
If your car is already an SS, you have a 3.90 rear. Good if you get an '04-05 6mt. '06 and later you need a 3.545. Cost depends on patience and resourcefulness.
6mt linkage
auto driveshaft
6mt tranny mount
6mt clutch
speedo driver from an older tranny
Again, cost depends on patience and knowing where to look. If you spend more than $40 on a driveshaft, I think you paid too much. IMHO, a used 6mt clutch would work just fine. Mine didn't slip until about 350 wtq in fifth gear.
As for DCCD control, its not a deal breaker. You can run without it. Just keep in mind that once the rears slip, you are spinning only the rear tires as the center diff is open without DCCD control. I drove this way for a year and a half. It was kind of a bummer in the snow sometimes. I now have the Spiider auto controller. My L didn't have ABS so the factory controller was not even an option.
So in conclusion, I think a 6mt for under $3k is doable, but it will take some patience and legwork to do it. Also, a friend or two to help install it if you only have a jack and stands. The 6mt is quite a bit heavier than the 5 speed.
I just realized my inbox was full, so I never received a message, I think, but am not sure as I got slightly lit last night. I can elaborate here.
For front axles, depending on how early of a model, you may or not may have stubs in the tranny already. If not, $100 for stubs plus seals to rectify that to use your original axles.
If your car is already an SS, you have a 3.90 rear. Good if you get an '04-05 6mt. '06 and later you need a 3.545. Cost depends on patience and resourcefulness.
6mt linkage
auto driveshaft
6mt tranny mount
6mt clutch
speedo driver from an older tranny
Again, cost depends on patience and knowing where to look. If you spend more than $40 on a driveshaft, I think you paid too much. IMHO, a used 6mt clutch would work just fine. Mine didn't slip until about 350 wtq in fifth gear.
As for DCCD control, its not a deal breaker. You can run without it. Just keep in mind that once the rears slip, you are spinning only the rear tires as the center diff is open without DCCD control. I drove this way for a year and a half. It was kind of a bummer in the snow sometimes. I now have the Spiider auto controller. My L didn't have ABS so the factory controller was not even an option.
So in conclusion, I think a 6mt for under $3k is doable, but it will take some patience and legwork to do it. Also, a friend or two to help install it if you only have a jack and stands. The 6mt is quite a bit heavier than the 5 speed.
→Dan
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m
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douglas vincent
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So do the 06-07's have way different gear ratios across the whole set?
I have a setup that I can make a lot of power on, but i don't have the tranny to back it up. I have both 3.90 and 3.54 Rear diffs, and some random drive shafts (although they are for imprezas...) so I may start accumulating the smaller items I need while saving for the actual tranny
What kind of speedo driver do you need?
edit: For the mount I assume you just need the mount, not a whole cross member?
I have a setup that I can make a lot of power on, but i don't have the tranny to back it up. I have both 3.90 and 3.54 Rear diffs, and some random drive shafts (although they are for imprezas...) so I may start accumulating the smaller items I need while saving for the actual tranny
What kind of speedo driver do you need?
edit: For the mount I assume you just need the mount, not a whole cross member?
92' SS: SOLD
98' 2.5GT SOLD, bought back, new stupid build in the works.
98' 2.5 GT-rx :bought not built
98' 2.5GT SOLD, bought back, new stupid build in the works.
98' 2.5 GT-rx :bought not built
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93forestpearl
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race_to_live
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yet another question...
on the PPG site is says under the product FOR SUBARU WRX 5 SPEED. so how do i find the parts that will fit in my trans? (91ss 5mt)
and to be honest, i really don't want to go through the bs of doing a 6mt. i mean it would be nice but i would rather just get different gear sets for my 5mt. i was just mainly just worried about which trans would pull the gears better. i didn't know that there was that many different ratio's for the 5mt.
also haha last question... is anyone running a front LSD with the 3.900rear LSD?
on the PPG site is says under the product FOR SUBARU WRX 5 SPEED. so how do i find the parts that will fit in my trans? (91ss 5mt)
and to be honest, i really don't want to go through the bs of doing a 6mt. i mean it would be nice but i would rather just get different gear sets for my 5mt. i was just mainly just worried about which trans would pull the gears better. i didn't know that there was that many different ratio's for the 5mt.
also haha last question... is anyone running a front LSD with the 3.900rear LSD?
-91ss, 250,000mi rebuilt, tmic, tdo4, agx's w/groundcontrol, f/r strut bars, rust
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
-83 gl wagon...350,000mi custom dents
-62 honda 55, (moped)
-74 Yamaha rd 350
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93forestpearl
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- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:14 pm
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race_to_live wrote:yet another question...
on the PPG site is says under the product FOR SUBARU WRX 5 SPEED. so how do i find the parts that will fit in my trans? (91ss 5mt)
and to be honest, i really don't want to go through the bs of doing a 6mt. i mean it would be nice but i would rather just get different gear sets for my 5mt. i was just mainly just worried about which trans would pull the gears better. i didn't know that there was that many different ratio's for the 5mt.
also haha last question... is anyone running a front LSD with the 3.900rear LSD?
You are going to need a WRX case and rear end, realistically. They can do a gearset for the SS case, but it is significantly more $$ and might only be availible in dog engagement. Phil explained it some time ago but I cannot remember for sure if they have both syncro and dog engagement. All I remember is that you are better off getting a WRX case if you want to go with a PPG set.
→Dan
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m