My new and bigger brakes.

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jamal
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My new and bigger brakes.

Post by jamal »

I had a box sitting in storage for a pretty long time with some brake parts I've been meaning to put on my car.

Last week I got a package and finally had all the parts I needed.

See look they're overnight from Japan:

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Contents, 2x of these:

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That's a rear caliper bracket and rotor, and my stock rear rotors are a bit smaller. So the first thing I had to do was trim the rear dust shields a bit

Cutoff wheel, meet dust sheild:

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Dust sheild, meet cutoff wheel:

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So after a few minutes with that thing I had room for the new rotors:

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Then I thought it would be a good idea to clean off all the clips and bolts and other caliper hardware:

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Oh hey look there are some stainless steel lines in there too:

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Looks like those pads fit the new brackets. They're Axxis Ultimates.

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Saturday it was time to get to work. In exchange for those rear rotors and brackets, I agreed to help my boss change the rotors and pads on his CR-V, flush the fluid, and put new pads on his wife's Forester. Here is all our stuff and him and his dog:

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We put the CR-V on jackstands, pulled off all the wheels, and I took off the front caliper, cleaned off the bracket, greased the pins and all that junk, then put it back together. It was soon apparent that the rotors we ordered online were the wrong size so we put the old stuff back on, slapped fresh pads on the Forester, and got to work on my car.

Here's the stuff I put on:

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What is it all?
WRX front brakes
'H6' Legacy rear brakes
Goodridge stainless steel lines
Axxis Ultimate pads
Motul RBF600 fluid.

That other fluid and the Hawks were for the CR-V.

So, my old front rotors are somewhat smaller than the new ones (260x22mm vs 294x24mm):

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The calipers also have an extra piston each.

The rear rotors are also a bit bigger (290mm vs 266mm), and the new rear calipers also have bigger pistons.

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Okay lets put this stuff on there. First put on the bigger dust shield:

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Then the rotor:

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Then the caliper bracket:

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Then the pads and caliper:

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Do the same for the rear:

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Then quickly detach the old lines and put on the new ones. Thankfully they all came off without trouble after being attached for 14 years.

Hey that's interesting. The new WRX lines bolt up to my struts. Why is that? The struts are out of an STi. So I no longer have to use zip-ties.

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I bought a mityvac at Sears before I did all this, so flushing and bleeding the brakes was a piece of cake. Pump vacuum handle, crack bleed screw, keep pumping until new fluid comes out. It took like 2 minutes a corner.

Old fluid vs new:

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As far as I know it had never been changed. Also it wasn't quite that nasty because some of that came from the calipers and lines that had been sitting for like a year.

So yeah thems are some bigger brakes:

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They barely fit under the wheels:

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So far I've only bedded in the pads and driven for like 20 minutes. They are a lot better and it's really easy to lock up a wheel. Tonight I think a few of us are going to go for a drive so I'll get a better impression then, and see how the bias is. According to Josh's spreadsheet it should be about the same as it was. I definitely need some stickier tires now.

This was also pretty cheap to do, especially since my boss bought the rear rotors and brackets ($250), and all the rest of the stuff is used. Front calipers were $120, rear calipers and lines were $60, pads were $70 for all four, front rotors were $60 total after a resurface (they had only been a wrx for a few thousand miles before he put brembos on), and the fluid was $30. So like $400 total for bigger brakes all around. The only things missing are the shims, which I don't have. I'm playing around with the idea of having some cut out of a sheet of titanium.

Bonus picture of mariachis at my friend's graduation party last weekend:

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Those jerks wouldn't take shots of tequila with us.
internetautomart
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Post by internetautomart »

Very nice write up.
now it's on my to do list
though it is a huge list :-\
94 BC w/ AWD Sold 6/25/08
92 BJ Rust bucket gone
90 BC (I think) Stripper, gone since 2k
86 GL10 Turbo 4wd, Gone since 99
AWD_addict
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Post by AWD_addict »

Cool pics and writeup.
90 L+ wgn
jamal
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Post by jamal »

Just got back from a pretty extended drive up on the Angeles crest. Total trip including picking up and dropping off a few people was over 200 miles. Adding these brakes to the suspension setup has really made me notice how slow my car is and how crappy these tires are. Lockup comes really quick, and I was no where close to fade, even after coming down from 7000ft. According to the brake math spreadsheet bias is the same, but they seem to be a bit more front biased. Either way theyl a whole lot better and I can brake harder more confidently. This week I might fabricate myself a master cylinder brace and see if it makes a difference.


Additional comments now that it's not 3am:

The feel and stability under braking are a whole lot better and they're easier to modulate. I made a couple of threshold 90-0 stops, and the car just, well, slowed down hard without any drama.

The added travel from all the extra piston area isn't a problem, with stainless lines and these tires at least. In a month or two I'll get a nice set of sticky tires. That should 'fix' the forward-feeling bias as well as letting me see how it feels when I get farther into the pedal stroke. These things lock up the RE92s like nothing.

Unfortunately I forgot the IR thermometer last night. It would have been cool to see how hot the rotors were at the bottom of Big Tijunga canyon.
ultrasonic
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Post by ultrasonic »

jamal wrote:This week I might fabricate myself a master cylinder brace and see if it makes a difference.
I've thought about doing the same thing... let us know what you come up with.
-steve-

03 Legacy L Wagon
91 Legacy Sport Sedan - SOLD
94 Legacy Touring Wagon - SOLD
00 Impreza L Sport Wagon - totaled!
jamal
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Post by jamal »

I've got a couple of layouts in my head. I just need to figure out which will be easier to make and fit in there with the fuel filter and stuff. I We have an endmill, lathe, and drill press at work. I just wish the mill had a rotary table because I could fab something like the perrin brace pretty easily.

I'll get started on it and my lowered seat rails this week I suppose.
ultrasonic
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Post by ultrasonic »

jamal wrote:I'll get started on it and my lowered seat rails this week I suppose.
Come up with a design and me and the rest of the tall guys will buy in! WRX seats that are as low or lower than the stock SS seats would be great. Is that what you're going for?
-steve-

03 Legacy L Wagon
91 Legacy Sport Sedan - SOLD
94 Legacy Touring Wagon - SOLD
00 Impreza L Sport Wagon - totaled!
jamal
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Post by jamal »

Exactly. I think I will be able to take my stock rails and make a bracket that adapts them to the wrx seats. I haven't taken them apart yet, though. If I have to I'll cut things apart and/or ditch the sliders because I really need these to be lower. HKS makes a lowering rail for these, actually, but for the price I could just sell mine and get some V3-6 seats.
EtchyLives
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Post by EtchyLives »

*Back from the Dead*

Great Write-up. I'm trying to decide where my winter mod-dollars are going and I've thought about brake upgrades.

My primary question is about brackets and I think you've answered it. Confirm for me that the WRX caliper bracket bolts directly up to the Legacy bolts and you'll have helped make my decision on whether or not I will be doing brakes this winter.

I'll figure out how to execute it after I do some online searches for parts.
[url=http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=35873]1994 Maroon Legacy SS with lots of mods[/url]
2000 BMW M5 with brake ducts and nice brakes
2002 Audi A6 with nice brakes
jamal
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Post by jamal »

Yep, the mounting and bolts are all the same. Thanks for bringing it up though, because the Brembos and possibly FHI 4-pots do use different bolts (but will still work as long as you have said bolts).

Also keep in mind that good pads, fluid, and lines will be more than sufficient for 90% of people who want a brake upgrade. On the other hand, I'd be wary of taking my setup to a track day, although I'd probably be fine thanks to the lack of power.
tris91ricer
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Post by tris91ricer »

Your boss looks like Bill Murray in that pic with his dog.
[b]'92 L Sedan[/b]
EJ20g 4.11 5sp LSD

[quote]e46 owners tend to be twats.
[/quote]
dropdfocus
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Post by dropdfocus »

Yeah, he sorta does. :lol:
Jason
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Perrin LCP, WRX & H6 brakes, S/S lines, Cusco H-brace & RSTB, AGX's, Progress springs, SimplySubie fender braces
jamal
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Post by jamal »

Eh, I don't really see it.


Anyway I guess it would be nice of me to post a follow up review of this stuff.

Firstly, pedal travel is noticeably longer. I think without the SS lines it would cause a problem. I'm also suspicious of the front left wheel bearing. I intend to get myself a larger non-abs SVX MC and a single diaphragm brake booster, and I still want a master cylinder brace. I happen to have room for 4-pots now but there are other things to spend that money on.

Secondly, the good pads, fresh fluid, and stainless steel lines all contribute to what I consider good feel. These brakes are easy to modulate, consistent, and will slow the car quickly from high speed with great stability (although suspension, tires, and alignment contribute a lot to that last part).

Thirdly, these brakes are pretty damn good in general. I've been on quite a few canyon runs and these things don't fade. I'd worry about it on a track if I had about 100 more hp though. Saturday, for example, I went up the Angeles crest with a few people including a Lotus Elise. I was first down mt Wilson and didn't ever see him behind me. That section is very steep and has some very sharp corners so you're on the brakes hard the whole way down. When I had an IR thermometer up there it produced the hottest temps and it's one of the few places I've experienced fade. I was also previously on RE92s and now I have 225 width RE750s.

Fourthly, the don't grind or squeal or make any other unusual noises. The Axxis Ultimates are however very, very dusty.

Fifthly, the balance feels better with the new tires. The fronts still lock up first, but that's not a bad thing. The stickier the tires, the more front bias you need (because there is more weight transfer to the front wheels), and I don't think bias can go much farther back. I'm still in the habit of trailbraking because of the swaybar setups I've had (18/0, 18/18, now 20/18) and the back has a tendency to get light if I'm not off the brakes into a corner.

On a side note, my brake, tire, and suspension setup makes the speed I can go down a canyon road somewhat unsafe. I think it's time to try out a track day.
Last edited by jamal on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dynamic Entry »

Good thread Jamal. Helpful for guys who are new to wrenching.

I have been thinking that I NEED a brake upgrade and I am gonna follow your advice and start simple with lines, pads and fluid.

Are the lines model specific or are brake lines universal?
Andrew

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95 Gravel Express - Sold
92 Green SVX - RIP
02 WRB WRX - Sold
93 White SS "Angel": 4EAT to 5MT 550 Robtune !SOLD!
̶9̶2̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶S̶ ̶5̶M̶T̶ R.I.P.
SiCkSTi04
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Post by SiCkSTi04 »

can you confirm that dust shields from the newer brakes bolt right in to the legacy stock dust shield holes? im sure the rear doesn't because they're held in place by small welds so you just trimmed it.

im refering to wrx dust shields btw
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jamal
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Post by jamal »

they sure do
SiCkSTi04
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Post by SiCkSTi04 »

1+ jamal
-04 WRX STi - Java Black Pearl - Cobb Stage 2
-02 Forester Type S premium - Platinum Silver Metallic - Stock
-92 Legacy Sport Sedan - Onyx Black Pearl - Stock
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