Hydraulic Clutch - Need help/input

[skid542]

So the swap hit another hard wall today. I can't get my clutch setup.

Not having experience with a hydro setup before I'm a little unsure if what I'm seeing is incorrect or if I'm just doing things wrong.

My friend and I bleed and bleed the clutch and I still can't get any pressure in it. So we thought, maybe we just need to prime the slave. We pulled out the piston, made sure the seal skirt was in good shape and then proceeded to fill it up with fluid with the bleed screw closed. Once we got it full we re-installed the piston into the sleeve, flipped it verticle so the bleed screw was at the top, cracked it open, and then pushed the piston in until it was flush with the surface of the housing. At which we closed the bleed screw. I will note that the master seemed to be fully primed as well and the hose was also full of fluid. The above procedure occured with all connections tight.

Now here is what has me confused and thinking the master is broken. After we got the piston in the slave flush with the housing we noticed that the clutch pedal was still on the floor. We pulled it up and upon doing so it pulled the slave piston further into the housing. Shouldn't the master have pulled fluid from the resivior to fill the space instead of pulling the fluid from the line? Basically, I don't understand how the system would push the slave cylinder out to where it is snug with clutch fork with it acting this way?

I don't know, I'm a little puzzled. I know the hyrdo clutch is a bit of a PIA to bleed from my research, but this seems excessive. I can't even get the pin from the slave cylinder to rest even close to the clutch fork with the pedal up.

I will also note that when I put my electric vacuum pump on the bleed nipple, this was before we tried to prime the slave cylinder. When we did this it barely pulled fluid through. I mean it just barely trickled out. Far from the solid flow I saw when I did my brakes. Is this normal?

I know I'm not the best mechanic but between two engineers, one of which has built a sub 11 sec. car, it doesn't seem like this should have taken over an hour with still no positive results.


Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Legacy777]

Lee,

Do you have any type of damper in between the clutch master cyl, and slave cyl?


What you're describing does sound like the master is not right. That or you don't have the clutch pedal adjusted correctly. There needs to be some slack in the pedal. The reason being, the plunger on the clutch MC needs to be allowed to fully retract.

I can't in detail explain the operation, but do know I experienced some issues when I did my swap and adjusted the clutch pedal height and all that jazz.

Try backing off the clevus a little bit to make sure the plunger on the MC is fully retracting.

[skid542]

Thanks for the response Josh.

I do not have a damper in the system. It's just a braided stainless steel line from the master to the slave.

I'll try backing off the clevis on the plunger but I'm not optimistic that will make a difference. I definately understand what you're saying about the master needing to be able to fully retract. However, it still didn't seem to want to really pull fluid when we had the master out of the car and were playing directing with the plunger.

My current thoughts are this - pressurize the resevior and force fluid down into the slave and get it to push forward to where it need to be with the clutch pedal up. If the master has a restriction in it that won't readily allow it to pull fluid from the resevior but holds pressure, then I just need to help it get fluid out of the resevior. I know this would only be a short term fix as the unit won't self adjust as the clutch disk wears.

The other option is to buy a new MC. The stealership is quoting me $145 for one and if I want to get it before next Tuesday I'm going to have to pay another $20 for shipping.

I need to get my car out of my friend's garage before then.

Thoughts?

[skid542]

Just a quick update - I'm having the dealership overnight in some new parts.

02' Master - $135
02' Slave rebuild - $20

So I should have all new parts to play with and be ready to go on Wed. I'm no longer willing to chance it on used parts that are questionable and this should also alleviate any issues of having mis-matched master/slave bore sizes.

On a quick side note, I was wondering - is it possible to install a stock clutch disk backwards? I have this sinking feeling of not being able to remember if I specifically made sure I installed the disk correctly - I'm assuming I did but the way this project has been going.... .

[Matt Monson]

Yes it's possible, but the springs will hang up on the flywheel bolts instantly.

When I did my EJ20G conversion I had issues bleeding my master. It was the strangest thing and I walked away from it after an hour of bleeding it. I came out the next morning and I had full pedal pressure and it worked just fine.

[skid542]

Thanks for the reply Matt. Last night as I was laying in bed trying to get to sleep it occured to me that my friend had pointed out the writing on the clutch disk stating 'this side to tranny'. I had also spun the disk slightly against the flywheel before getting the alignment tool shoved in. There was no hang-ups so I think I'm good. I'm just a little paranoid at this point .

With regards to the master, the more research I do the more it sounds like these hyrdo clutch systems are pretty finicky. I'm still not convinced the master is correct on account it didn't seem to want to pull fluid readily from the resevior. But the new parts should be here tomorrow and that should take care of any concern about it not working.

Arrgg... though, I just want my car running . So close....

[AWD_addict]

That sounds like a bad master cyl. If you have a friend to help and a bleeder kit you should be able to easily bleed that simple of a setup.

I've always used a helper (but not a vac. bleeder). The first bleed of a new system takes a while, but you should be able to notice progress.