Questions, questions, questions!! MAF and EM help please!

[92 Rally]

OK, I am tired of sitting here searching this topic to death and still left with a confused look on my face that will make a girlscout cry. I have spent countless hours searching and that only made me have more questions....

We just got a 91' Turbo Legacy that we are attempting to turn into a RallyX warrior. While tearing into the car I noticed it had a JECS MAF, and a seized VF11. Now I am reading that the JECS MAF was not intended for the 91' Turbo's unless you run some sort of EM and injectors. How do I go about checking the ECU for a chip? I would assume just open it up, but I do not know the tell tale signs that it was chipped.

How can I identify which injectors are on the car? I know they are usually color coded...

Since the VF11 is seized we planned on installing a tdo4, tmic , CAI intake, and exhaust while we were at it. With all of this, the JECS MAF and STi injectors/rails seem to be the way to go. Then the only thing left is EM. I was looking at the Revtronix stg. 2 chip which seems to be a good and fairly cost effective idea. Is there other methods of EM out there around that price range?

Is there a way to make a tdo4, intake, exhaust, Hitachi MAF and stock injectors work without to much effort?

Thanks in advance!

[douglas vincent]

Keep the JECS, get a PP6, and then run 550 injectors...

BUT ONLY if you are going to run bigger turbo/more boost than stock. Otherwise, why do it?

But thats the "cheap and easy" way out.

[92 Rally]

I don't even know what PP6 is (I know its some sort of EM) or where to find info on it.

Like I said, we only plan on the tdo4, tmic and maybe 10psi. We would like to return it completely back to stock and just run it like that, but we have the tdo4, tmic, injectors, and JECS laying around already...

Just need it to be reliable and safe to beat the crap out of in the dirt. I would love to show up some WRX's and STi's with this thing!

[beatersubi]

You don't really need EM for that stuff.
With the stock management, the td04 will run about 12psi, and on stock injectors it works just fine.
Save the money from the EM and get a proper MAF and use the rest on decent suspension and tires.
Driver skill wins rallycrosses, power spins tires.

[Pita84]

I think thats a good point.. throw the MAF on the shelf.. keep it for later and just get the car on the road.. we have enough parts to modify this car, but why not get it out there and test it first to make sure its not all a waste of time and money. suspension does seem a better mod

[92 Rally]

I agree, I would much rather same the money for the blown struts! I just don't want to run into any problems that could have been avoided with the proper parts. Id hate to get this thing on the track and then blow the engine because we had the wrong combination of parts.

I have read numerous posts that state you will max out the stock Hitachi MAF with the VF11 and a turboback exhaust, so that kinda has me worried with what we plan on doing.

[GodSquadMandrake]

The Revtronix ECU is cheaper and they have maps for your exact setup so that will work. OR you could get Perfect Power Smart Tuner 6:

http://www.rallitek.com/rapeecu.html
http://perfectpower.com/products/smt6.asp

Cost $400, advantages, tuneability and room for future upgrades. You can also run a MAP sensor and do away with the MAF altogether. If you don't plan on touching the motor altogether ever I would get the Revtronix chip. But the PP6 is only like $100-200 more and gives you so much more. The next step up would be a complete standalone ECU like Link, Microtech, Hydra, etc. Those are $2,000-4,000 and that's probably more than your car cost!

I don't like the Revtronix chip because it's too expensive for a one time thing. I am always fiddling with my engine and need to change stuff.

Oh yeah you need to invest in a wideband ($169-200 for Innovate LC-1 pretty much cheapest route) if you want to really fine tune it with PP6. This opens a lot of doors and lets you really get what you want from your engine. Without a wideband you're just taking a shot in the dark. Of course you can make educated guesses at your tuning based on the color of spark plugs, and how it runs etc but that is very limited.

[Pita84]

We found a stock MAF for cheap and think well leave it alone for the time being. Thanks for all the help

What are the limitations of the Stock MAF?

[wtdash]

As someone running* the Stage 2 - TD04 Revtronix chip I'll throw my .02 in here.....

If you're comfortable tuning and know what you want then get the other EM, but for me the chip has been perfect - plug it in and go. No tuning required....and no worries of blowing it up.

As far as too much $$? I've got @ least 50% more HP and torque AND peace of mind for $240 (not including the TD04, TMIC, etc.). That's a smokin' deal.

The use-tunable chip is also due out in the near future - check out the Revtronix.com site.


*I'm currently testing the final revision of this chip w/Revtronix.

[92 Rally]

How good or bad can we expect it to run with the stock MAF, injectors and the other parts listed above? This isnt going to be a DD so we dont need it to be ''perfect'', just decent for racing. We dont want to drop a lot of money on this right off the bat when we dont even know how its going to run/drive yet. Plus our suspension needs a LOT of attention! We need to make room for my 16" rally tires!

As for a wideband, that is a no brainer! If we go that route I might have to barrow the LC1/xd-16 out of my WRX.

[wtdash]

It'll run great, IMHO.

Read THISabout the stock MAF.

I ran my TD04/TMIC w/3"TBE and stock injectors @ 14psi (MBC) w/out issue before the chip.

I also removed the snorkus and resonator box on the intake.

You'll need an FCD to run over 13psi.

[Legacy777]

Just get it running in stock form first and then worry about modifcations later.

The stock injectors are light pink in color.


ECU should look like this
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... iecu_tleg/

[GodSquadMandrake]

What is the use-tuneable chip? Can you really tune it or do you just select different maps?

[92 Rally]

Just get it running in stock form first and then worry about modifcations later.

The stock injectors are light pink in color.


ECU should look like this
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... iecu_tleg/

See getting it to run in stock form is kinda out of the question. The car was hacked before we even got our hands on it with a botched intake and exhaust. Not to mention it had a seized vf11 on it. The most stock setup we can put on it would be a Hitachi MAF, tdo4, and a exhaust. Since we are already that far into it, we might as well mock up the intercooler as well. We are just trying to get it to run with the parts we have, and not spend money on parts that we dont have. Buying a good used vf11, stock intake, and stock exhaust is just out of the question in my eyes. Its like taking two steps back in order to take one step forward.

Thank you for the injector color and ECU pictures! Much appreciated! I just verified that the stock injectors are still installed.

We also have a Hitachi MAF on the way to us in the mail.

[Legacy777]

When I say stock, I'm not really referring to bolt on parts. Those don't really count. I'm referring to stock EM components, ECU, injectors, MAF, etc.

Those are your basic components all tied back to the specific turbo legacy ECU. Keep those so you can run the stock ECU and get the car running to work out the kinks. Then if you want more power/tunability, dig into aftermarket chips, piggy backs, etc.