Guys think about the Megasquirt standalone? ITS WORKS

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:39 am

Just dropping in to see if anything new

Arctic Assassian · Post by **Arctic Assassian** » Fri May 16, 2008 4:11 pm

The ej22t ECU is mighty special, It'd be hard to do what subaru did, with a 300 dollar MS kit.

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Sat May 17, 2008 4:41 am

every ecu for every car is "special" the ej22t ecu is not a rare thing. engineers designed it for use with sensors and gears they wanted to use, and a lot of people can duplicate the circuitry to decode these wheels and sensors. its been done before, and my friends and adopted family are assisting me in getting this done, and its so close to done, I can practically taste it. the "key" so to speak is the VR circuitry. an additional 20 bucks or so of components and voila. Subaru 6/7 is understood by a Megasquirt. you may find it hard to believe a "300 dollar" standalone can handle a Subaru, but its not about the cost, its about the brains behind the product. you can put stuff together for 10 g and if the people who design it are idiots, you'll end up with proprietary pieces of crap. (think of a couple somewhat well known products with major flaws, lack of tunability, etc... )

if you have a product with thousands of intelligent people testing and furthering development, as with Megasquirt, anything is possible, and support is always just a click away. (and maybe after we get both of our MS legacies running to 100% of their potential, you could get support just a phone call, or personal visit away too)

if you're still skeptical, I can get you the email of a guy (my brother-in-law so to speak) who will give you enough explanation of how the circuitry works to decode and control stock Subaru sensors to make your brain hurt (kinda like VRG3 does to some people on a lot of issues) just drop me an email. (jlunes@gmail.com)

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:17 pm

The issue isn't about controling the sensors.

Any stand alone can control the basics of an engine, cheap or expensive. What sets the cheaper ones apart from the more expensive ones is their ability to control the engine at light load and varying loads without any problem, as well as control air conditioner, idle speed, etc etc, not to mention the logging ability.

I did a lot of homework before choosing my Link, and one of the requirements I set was that it needed to perform all the functions of the stock ECU. You'd be surprised how little there are.

That's not to say the megasquirt doesn't have its place. But to say that it can do everything that the stock ECU can do in all circumstances, I highly doubt that.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:17 am

If you plan to daily drive with stand alone I strongly believe that the ability to adjust fueling based on readings from a wide/narrow band 02 sensor is a top priority.

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:51 am

Megasquirt has that ability, and it "recommends" wide band, but you can use narrow band if you so desire... I personally installed my J.A.W. controller yesterday, and will finish placement of the O2 sensor, calibration, and tying up the loose ends either tonight or tomorrow. (for those of you who don't know, the J.A.W. controller is an open source style wide band controller J.A.W. stands for "just another wideband" its able to be used with aftermarket stuff, as well as the stock ecu. you can "trick" the stock computer by using the narrow band outputs on the J.A.W., and setting the output so that the stock setting is adjusted to either lean out or enrich the a/f ratio... same kind of thing you can do with some of the more expensive wideband setups. cost is very low, and tunability is there, much like the Megasquirt.

the stock MS and MS2 may not do things like a/c control, cooling fans, lowering (interior) fan speeds at WOT, and that, but with additional circuitry that is not extremely complicated, you can make that work. we have discussed doing these things with our plug and play units, depending on how much space is left over and time, we may even add additional things, including wheel speed sensor usage (traction control isn't that likely at this point, but eventually who knows)

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:43 pm

UPDATE

A guy is running it now.

Buying one and installing it in another 98 imprez turbo with a 20g

Ill let you guys know

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... ru#p187991

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:34 pm

Any word??

Aussie_in_mo · Post by **Aussie_in_mo** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:53 pm

Digging up a bit of an older thread here but I'm about to embark down the MS road for my EJ22 build up that's going into my '82 Brat.
I'm going to build a website to detail my build experience as well as collate all the info I've dug up on MS as it relates to Subaru's
If any one is currently running an MS system on their Subaru then please let me know, I'll be happy to include any of your findings on the site also.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:56 pm

This is getting more interesting all the time. Keep up the good work guys!

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:49 pm

Just an update on this

James is the code writer for the MS program. Him and many others. We are in works right now with him making sure the code works.
We have tried several different things on this code to get it to work. The car is very close to starting. It wants to but its dropping SYNC on cam and crank Once we get this figured out its going to work great.
Also talked to him about running COP (coil on plug) and he said once the code works then its very easy to set it up.

Ill post a link tonight for the most recent work that has been done, The link above is no longer up to date

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:24 pm

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=24251

GodSquadMandrake · Post by **GodSquadMandrake** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:19 pm

Just thought I would give this thread an update. It now works with the new code using the 36-2-2-2 wheel which is on all the new Subaru's and can be swapped onto a Legacy. Apparently it works much better and has more resolution than using the 6/7 wheel or a 4-1 wheel.

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 9&start=80

I don't know if I have the courage to attempt MS. OEM is just so nice and it works. MS requires lots of fidding.

Impregacy · Post by **Impregacy** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:31 am

Glad I finally found this thread. Where did that lunes guy go? I was excited to see another MI person who is trying to MS2 an ej22t. I have recently built the computer and will be running Ford EDIS4, which is the way to go, I think, if you know someone with a mill or CAD machine for sending out to pro cutter people. I used my granpa's mill to painstakingly cut each tooth with an end mill. The EDIS greatly simplifies all this talk about 6/7 decoder code and circuitry. The only reason to run a cam sensor is for sequential injection and COP, which the MS2 cannot handle unless you expand it through its CAN capability. Poeple with newer cars that have all these nice goodies from the factory cannot control them with MS2, but they get by with standard hardware--this has given birth to funny megasquirt phrases like; "wasted spark COPs" and "quasi sequential injection". Sequential injection is really only beneficial for low engine speeds, where it can be timed to inject exactly when the intake valve is open, otherwise the valve is opening and closing too fast. There are plenty of cars running on MS with nice smooth idle in both cold and hot start conditions, just not as perfect and efficient as the factory who installed it for emmisions reasons. If you are worried about emmisions, use the car's factory computer to control idle... or use the MS2's staged injection ability to have small injectors running at idle with higher frequency then switch to monster injectors based on parameters you control. That's my final point, monster injectors...

Lagacy777's point about tunability is well taken though, we'll have to see how it handles partial throttle, accell enrichment, lean spikes and such. I will be tuning with innovate LC1 wide band o2. BTW MS2 has the ability to tune your fuel table automatically with O2 feedback loop.

Right now I am in the process of wiring the ECU into my Impreza. I plan on using the factory boost control system and IAC, which MS2 can control with programmable PWM outputs. I think I can use the factory VR sensor and coils with EDIS. This should make installation a breeze. I have already modified the in tank fuel unit to accept an sti pump, and will be setting up some NA fuel rails for 550cc sti injectors this week. Will post pictures soon.

GodSquadMandrake · Post by **GodSquadMandrake** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:43 am

I totally respect the MS people. Subaru's are different cars and attract a different crowd of tuner's, that's one reason I can think of why MS isn't more popular. It seems like more people are willing to just plop down the cash for a Link or some other mainstream standalone. I can't blame the guys doing open source reflashes on the WRX's though, if I could do that with my Legacy I would. I mean it's already wired up and already works! Why fix what isn't broke?

As a past Megasquirt user I do know about some of the problems MS has. A lot of things like fans, A/C, IAC, etc all require you to solder jumpers on the board to change.

I think the most attractive part of sequential injection for most tuners is the fact that each cylinder is independant and you can pull/add fuel individually. We all know how cylinder #4 runs lean and knocks before all the rest. Well you could fix that with sequential injection. Sure you have two channels of injectors on MS and you could technically put cylinder #4 on one channel and the other three on their own channel and achieve the same affect.
In all fairness you need 4 widebands to fully use this feature too and most people aren't willing to buy 4, but for the professional it is an issue.

And I think most people will recognize that MS is more for racing than anything else. You see a ton of purpose built race cars and offroaders with MS, but if you want maximum streetability MS isn't it.

I would happily run MS but the Legacy EJ22T ECU is already a special piece of work as someone stated, it just needs tunability. I don't have any experience with piggybacks but I'm taking the plunge with E-Manage Ultimate. The stock ECU already does what I want, I just want to change how it does it. So hopefully I can tune my new engine with it. This is for a purpose built race-car too, but I don't want my engine to die on transit or in the starting grid.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:46 pm

GodSquadMandrake wrote: In all fairness you need 4 widebands to fully use this feature too and most people aren't willing to buy 4, but for the professional it is an issue.

Four EGT sensors is what most people use. Some standalones will run four, like the AEM.

You pretty much summed up why I sold the MS I had in my posession, and saved for my Link several years ago.

Impregacy · Post by **Impregacy** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:23 pm

GodSquadMandrake wrote: In all fairness you need 4 widebands to fully use this feature too and most people aren't willing to buy 4, but for the professional it is an issue.

Or have 4 bosses and move it around.

I didn't know there were people on here that started down the MS path and then turned away. We'll have to see how MS2 works. I'll keep a journal. There are only a handful of Subaru success stories. Here is the newest one. He totally made a double stack of injectors, which is pretty cool

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 764cd20c9d

Do you guys think that I will be able to fix the cylinder #4 mechanically? I was under the impression that fuel pressure there is lower and coolant is a little restricted. That was my plan.

I went with MS mostly because I wanted to spend the minimum amount of money, but the price is really starting to stack up:

MS2 v3.0 $350
sensors, wire, connectors IAT EDIS module...: $100
Innovare LC1 wbO2 with gauge: $200
STi 550cc injectors: $175
STi fuel pump: $20
Ebay SS manifold: $105
Water injection pump(audi a6 VDO fuel pump) $20
5 gal water tank: $free

still need :
NA fuel rails
ss lines and fittings
a few ej22t gaskets and bolts
2.5 RS flywheel and clutch
new manifold studs
fabricate exhaust sys. (I have some 3" mandrel bends from work)

I'm pretty sure this is the cheapest junky way to get sti power! Unless you know of a junkier one.

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asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:44 pm

What turbo are you going to use? The stock VF11 isn't going to offer much help if you're shooting for 300CHP.

GodSquadMandrake · Post by **GodSquadMandrake** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:52 pm

Impregacy, your plan will work but it won't be as easy as you might think. I don't know how easy you think it is, but it's always harder than you think. I will be very interested to track your build and I look forward to your success!

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:38 pm

you guys over think this Megasquirt.

Im a poster and I was in most of the building, my name is Cododgeneon on the other boards. MS works and it runs great, daily driven or track use.

The guy I built the MS for runs a 2.2t with 2.5 heads and a 18 turbo. He dyno'd 351 whp. His name on the baords is Turboed22.

Ill link to his last page on his dyno chart.

Once we changed a few caps and trans in the MS it worked perfect, we first had problems with it acting like a rev limiter, we were able to move it up higher with each componet changed

He is using the 36-2-2-2 wheel cause he gave up on the 6/7 and he knew the 36-2-2-2 worked so we swapped the 6/7 wheel out for the other one and still same problems. He didnt want to switch back so we played with the MS more and finally got it to run perfect.

I bet the 6/7 wheel will work just fine just like the 36-2-2-2 does.

If you guys have questions let me know. I havent been on lately but ill check here more again

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 51#p217751

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:46 pm

Also forgot to mention. He is using MS2 and in wasted spark.

The new beta they are trying out or building will have COP seq. injection for the 6/7 and 36-2-2-2

To fix the lean condition on cyl 4 just fix your fuel lines and add a fpr.
With Turboed22's car all we did add a injector that was 10cc's bigger on that cyl. He is planning on upping to 1000cc and pure e85 fuel.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:04 am

94legacy2.2, thanks for posting the info! Keep posting, please!

BTW, the link doesn't work.

Exactly what was done on the fuel lines to fix the lean condition on cyl #4? Was it the fuel line mod or the larger injector that solved the lean condition or both?

I tried finding Turboed22 on the MS boards and couldn't find him. Is he on a different board?

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:22 am

http://www.msextra.com/index.php

Thats the link, The site is down right now for some reason, just search for the subaru 6/7 wheel once its up

To fix the lean condition on #4 all we did is add a larger injector in that hole/cyl 3 of the 4 have 560cc's and #4 has 572cc's all the plugs look the same as in color and no signs of detonation

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:25 am

Great! Thanks for that info!

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:30 am

Oh, just thought of a question: Does the ms squirt more fuel into cylinder 4? It doesn't read each cylinder individually and compensate for the larger injector thereby effectively alloting the same amount of fuel in cyl 4 as the other three cylinders?

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Guys think about the Megasquirt standalone? ITS WORKS