Billet Parts?

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:56 am

Who makes billet parts for the EJ22T? I know that the rally cars that McRae and such drove surely did not just use forged internals....Someone has to make some serious parts like billet cranks or rods?

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:57 am

Serious parts cost serious money.A well funded race team can contract a machinist to custom make whatever is needed.If you can afford that then all you need is a CAD file of needed parts and an establishment you trust to make the stuff.BTW "just" forged internals are going to handle as much power as you will ever make with one of these engines.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:30 am

Well, I didn't know if forged parts would handle what I wanted to do. 13 or 14:1 compression and then a turbo on top of that? I know that they can have their own machinist do those things, I just wanted to know where I could personally buy some billet parts. I thought maybe some Subaru aftermarket people made some. I saw that they make them for 2.5's and 2.0's.....no 2.2's, but will a 2.5 or 2.0 crank fit in our block?

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:04 pm

The 2.2 block is really sweet and all being fully closed - but,its not as though people dont make extreme power reliably with open deck blocks.You can as far as i know have the block machined to accept the newer cranks (i think you need to machine for another thrust bearing or something) but why bother if you have the means to go all out.

Also the concept of 14:1 comp combined with turbo sounds like science fiction to me.What kind of fuel is required for that to work?? If you do that then your crank wont be the thing to suffer- your pistons,head gaskets,and wallet will.

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:52 pm

drewriviera wrote:Well, I didn't know if forged parts would handle what I wanted to do. 13 or 14:1 compression and then a turbo on top of that?

Why would you possibly want to even attempt that??? By the time you had all the supporting parts, machine work, custom parts and dyno time/tuning done, it would be a $30k motor at least.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:35 pm

Why would you possibly want to even attempt that??? By the time you had all the supporting parts, machine work, custom parts and dyno time/tuning done, it would be a $30k motor at least

And then when your done you will need a trans that costs about $20k to handle it LOL! And then you will need to learn to drive REALLY well!

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:16 am

Ok guys maybe I'm just used to building American V8's

....Maybe we could get the compression ratio around 10:1. Does anyone have any kind of engine specs for the rally cars like McRae drove? I saw a youtube video one time where they showed the engine and talked about it in the McRae Legacy. If you listen to the engine though, it has VERY high compression. I am trying to figure some specs because I might be building a rally car. I also would love to see some good inside pictures of said car as well. I thought I saw a place that sold billet stuff for 2.2's but???

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:21 am

You arent hearing high compression.You do realize that by boosting an engine you are essentially raising compression by cramming more air into it? If you learn more about turbo systems you will understand that people spend really good money on lowering compression to allow safe and high boost,not the other way around.

If you want rally car power then your goals are to start making a crap load of boost.You will not be anywhere near the first to have done so,therefor dont try to think outside the box or you WILL lose money.

253.Asmo · Post by **253.Asmo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:05 am

Inside the box thinking is great considering our cars have been around for 20 years now.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:01 am

The other thing is that those race engines weren't built for anything resembling longevity between rebuilds.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:58 am

gijonas wrote:You arent hearing high compression.You do realize that by boosting an engine you are essentially raising compression by cramming more air into it? If you learn more about turbo systems you will understand that people spend really good money on lowering compression to allow safe and high boost,not the other way around.

I am not stupid. I do realize that turbos push air into an engine. You know people with v8's have turbos too?!? I do not like low compression engines. Surely, the EJ22T can withstand some compression. Anyway, as you guys are attacking me, none of you have actually answered any of my questions. I don't believe that I have said anything to off-put anyone on the board. I simply wanted to know who made billet parts for an EJ22T and maybe get some engine specs/pics of the Legacy rally cars.

brand · Post by **brand** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:04 am

There are none available for the 22 because there are easier ways to achieve the same thing (more boost). If you want to use a crank from a 25 you can have some machining done, which has been mentioned. That's the answer to your question, as has been stated. Hopefully I've put it succinctly enough for you.

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:12 am

If you're serious about billet internals, contact some of the high-end manufacturers (Callies, Crower, etc.), many of them can and will make whatever you want on a custom basis.

I really don't think you put anyone off here...simply put, the goals you stated seem rater unrealistic. I've worked on, driven and know owners of more than a couple of turboed V8's, and the compression ratios vs. boost limitations are similar to Subarus, as in a 13-14:1 turbocharged engine would be...lets just say EXTREMELY challenging to design/build/tune/manage/pay for. Even a 10:1 V-8 normally sees only around 8-12 lbs. max boost for any kind of street application.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:19 am

Just curious, have you built a v8 with this kind of compression with boost? What kind of boost did you run with what compression?

What kind of octane did you use?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:30 am

drewriviera wrote:Who makes billet parts for the EJ22T? I know that the rally cars that McRae and such drove surely did not just use forged internals....Someone has to make some serious parts like billet cranks or rods?

All billet parts are is a stock forging machined to be the part you want. The parts start as a plate end are machined to be a part.

The stock rods in any EJ motor are forged. If you look at the parting lines you notice they are wide and ground off, unlike a casting that has a very tight parting line.

If you want to get crazy with the motor, Pauter Machine does excellent work, as do others like Oliver, Crower, etc. Eagle rods handle in excess of 650 hp, so unless you plan on going more than that, don't waste your money.

The stock crank will handle whatever a set of Eagle rods will dish out. So, again, if you plan on eclipsing 650 hp with the motor, don't waste your money. The stock crank is a high carbon forging, which has to be that way for a modern boxer engine to even be possible.

As far as compression goes, you absolutely do not build an aggressively boosted motor with 10:1 compression. You are chopping yourself off at the knees if you do. 8.2:1 to about 8.8:1 is where you should be at. If you don't, you will be severely knock limited in what you can do with the motor. You are waaaaay out of the realm of a dirt track car. The stock EJ22T is 8.0:1 compression, if that puts it into perspective.

If you really want to get serious, get some rods from Pauter, pistons from CP, balance everything, and go to it. If you really want to get crazy, sleeve the block. For example, the shortblock I want is about $5200 in parts and machine work, with me assembling the motor.

Welcome to Subarus, lol.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:33 am

Also, it doesn't take a $20k tranny to hold a ton of power. P&L runs 9's on a stock 6mt.

A $5k and change can build an auto that will hold 1000whp, with AWD. Buying the same thing from Australia will cost you $7500 plus shipping.

And that's just a shorblock and tranny, not including heads, electronics, a turbo, plumbing, cooling, differentials and axles, datalogging, etc, to the tune of over $20k.

gijonas · Post by **gijonas** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:45 am

Yeah - not trying to be a dick but your questions were just screaming unrealistic goals or lack of understanding, i personally was just trying to get a feel for which it was

You have not yet stated what this said super motor will be used for,because as stated already even if it is built it will last just long enough for UPS to ship the rebuild parts.You said that you dont like low compression,this basically means you dont like turbo motors.Which is fine.Stick N/A if thats what you know small displacement N/A motors can be quite impressive.That said turbo motors are also great if you can spare a couple seconds for the boost to happen.

The type of engine you want may not be entirely impossible but as some have said it would cost literaly 10's of thousands to build,are you even in that position?? if so i bet we will all watch your build thread in awe, otherwise its just throwing numbers around with no realistic intent.

Again - not trying to be a dick,but maybe coming across as one

tturnpaw · Post by **tturnpaw** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:50 am

Well to answer one question, (instead of bashing with partially correct answers) you can use any phase 1 crank with any phase 1 block. 99 or older ej's will all be exchangeable. Just watch your piston extrusion point. Use matching rods to the crank. There are many combinations you can accompany the crank with in the 22t block.

As far as 14:1 with boost....You would need 130+ octane for that. That leaves you with methanol/alcohol, propane, nitro methane. Real spendy fuel. Higher octane will only net you a safer broadband of what you can throw down on top of the compression and be safe. Not to mention it takes much more fuel to make the same kind of power. Keep in mind the higher octane just to keep it safe wont help it make any more power than the 87 pump. So as far as price and availability goes, id shoot for something that can handle pump gas and or meth/nitro mix.

I would suggest, for the limit, 10:1 at the highest, but preferably 9:1. The more power, the lower the compression to cram more boost in. The lowest point i would go is 7.5:1. As already stated, lower compression will give you a larger margin of safety as far as detonation goes.

91legacyawdturbo · Post by **91legacyawdturbo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:24 am

No to be a dick. but the rally legacies are an Ej20G NOt an EJ22T, motor. (EJ22T Usdm only)

tturnpaw · Post by **tturnpaw** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:28 am

The engine displacement requirement for wrc is 2.0liter.

91legacyawdturbo · Post by **91legacyawdturbo** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:50 am

tturnpaw wrote:The engine displacent requirement for wrc is 2.0liter.

Exactly 2.0=Ej20G
the Ej22t was never a WRC motor as to the OP" McRae used".
the Rally legacies used an ej20g not a ej22t

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:11 pm

Please read up on what exactly a billet is.

Code: Select all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billet_(manufacturing)

I would say in pretty much all cases, a forging will yield a stronger part than an unworked/untreated machined billet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:19 pm

A better part would also be forged, just beefier and cracked, not cut, bearing caps.

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Billet Parts?

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