20psi launch=Transmission Fail!

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:51 pm

WhiteLegacyGuy wrote:My camera does not accept lenses at all. It's just a Canon Powershot SD780 IS

How are you liking that camera? That's what I've got, and I have been pretty happy with it. The video quality is pretty good.

WhiteLegacyGuy · Post by **WhiteLegacyGuy** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:02 am

Legacy777 wrote:
WhiteLegacyGuy wrote:My camera does not accept lenses at all. It's just a Canon Powershot SD780 IS
How are you liking that camera? That's what I've got, and I have been pretty happy with it. The video quality is pretty good.

It's my first proper digital camera, I have only had 2 megapixel camera phones before.So 12.1MP is a great improvement over that. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I bought it because it takes HD video. The optical image stabilization is very nice also. The price out the door was like $379 with an extra battery, a nice leather case and a 8GB SD card, From Best Buy in May. I thought it was a good price at the time. I got the Black one BTW, what color did you get?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:18 am

Damn, I want that camera pretty bad. 1080P video on a digital camera is pretty cool. I have the 790IS. Not quite as cool but it was a pretty good camera until I ran it over with my car. Still a decent camera. Just has a few blue spots on the screen, the casing is all bent up and the feature that auto rotates the image when you turn the camera sideways no longer works properly.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:36 am

tturnpaw wrote:
Many, and i do say MANY people run chipped 6.0s seeing 1400-1600 egt's daily. Thats more than ive seen in any conservative tune in any gas car. With a decent tuner or better. A bad tune isnt an excuse.

That's awfully high for a diesel...

I've seen my Dodge hit 800* once, on an uphill with my 16' carhauler loaded behind it...With 32 psi and a #11 fuel plate

My Audi on the other hand hits 1450* regularly...

This thread is making me want a TW with a built auto

tturnpaw · Post by **tturnpaw** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:39 am

Those are typically sled pullers or drag trucks pluming smoke like crazy. Thats why they run a crapload of fuel.

You may think your dodge is hopped up. But 32psi on a stock holset is nothing. Ive worked on a 24 valve with 75-80 psi twin turbo (compound setup) That was over the 1000hp range. Hes seen similar temps. He would deteriorate head gaskets if he wasnt careful.

And your audi is a VW product so that doesnt surprise me. Not to mention its older. Theres only so much adjustment in a manual injection system.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:20 pm

Apparently the newer Holset HE351 VGT is sensative to over-speeding. The shaft can snap and the turbine wheel finds its way out the tailpipe.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:45 pm

WhiteLegacyGuy wrote:It's my first proper digital camera, I have only had 2 megapixel camera phones before.So 12.1MP is a great improvement over that. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I bought it because it takes HD video. The optical image stabilization is very nice also. The price out the door was like $379 with an extra battery, a nice leather case and a 8GB SD card, From Best Buy in May. I thought it was a good price at the time. I got the Black one BTW, what color did you get?

Mine is the black one as well. I picked it up off Amazon before my trip to Japan this past August. I need to get another battery for it. I'd like to get some decent video with it....then I guess I need to sign up for youtube account or something....or figure another way to convert the video to flash so it's not HUGE

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:39 pm

93forestpearl wrote:Apparently the newer Holset HE351 VGT is sensative to over-speeding. The shaft can snap and the turbine wheel finds its way out the tailpipe.

read about people making an actuator for that vgt out of a wastegate actuator. adjusted so that once it sees 7psi or whatever the actuator is, the VGT is fully open. a problem with that setup is throttle position or cruising on the highway dont have any input on how the vgt is controlled. you could probably put a cable on the vanes to hold them open if you wanted to.
I dont think the vnt garrets can be mechanically controlled can they? they use oil pressure to actuate or something.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:53 pm

The smaller VNT Garretts that are on the Powerstoke and Duramax use a PWM solenoid to control oil pressure to a piston. You could not change it to a mechanical system. If you have a standalone it is fairly easy to control, so that's why we use it.

The GT42 version that is used on the large diesel engines uses air pressure from their air brake system to run the vanes. That one may possibly be converted to something to something useable in a car, but we would need a much larger motor to use that turbo anyways.

yeah, I saw a thread or two where people were trying it, but i didn't follow them long enough to see any results. I might dig back into it a little bit.

I'm not a fan of using a wastegate actuator to control a VGT or VNT system for the reasons you listed. At cruise you definitely want the vanes fully open for economy. Also, from our experience there is a fine line between making some boost and power, compared to making a lot of boost and choking the motor. Surging the compressor is also easy to do. On Saturday when we were out tuning we found a spot that surged ever so slightly, so Derek dialed the vanes back a few percent in that particular spot. You couldn't do that with a mechanically controlled setup.

The Holset also uses the ring as an engine brake, closing the exhaust off to almost nothing. Not an ideal situation in a performance application. It is a similar situation on the Garretts, but not as extreme. At fully closed, the exhaust is passing through nine or ten (depending on the year) 1/16" slits between the vanes. Way to much restriction for anything useful.

At around zero manifold pressure, the vanes dip down a bit to get the turbo moving, then open up at various rates depending on rpm and the present load. A lot of time was spent to find the balance. A 4D map would be really nice to have even more control.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:55 am

Goin' to PMs

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:59 am

Here we go again

tturnpaw · Post by **tturnpaw** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:11 am

555BCTurbo wrote:
No...my Dodge is mildly tuned for better trailer pulling...and I subsequently dropped about 100* in EGTs from doing the fuel plate and cranking the boost.

Also, more fuel on a diesel makes them run hotter, so I don't think they sled pulling guys are running 'em rich for cooling effects. A lot of those trucks are P pumped 12 valves with no fuel plate, huge delivery valves, injectors, etc. so they are going to smoke regardless.

Your comment about my Audi is fucking asinine. "It's a VW product" What does it being older have anything to do with how hot the Turbo gets? Nothing. You automatically assumed my Audi still has CIS on it...which isn't the case

I didnt say a single thing about cooling.

They do that to keep the turbos spooling as much as possible while burning as much fuel as possible while sacrificing low egt temps. I have a hard time believeing adding fuel and boost dropped your egt's. Just as you said and contradicted yourself, more fuel is hotter. Boost isnt cooling either. Dont be fooled, theres still a bunch (i mean a lot) of common rail guys, not just 12 valvers.

As for VW's, my opinion is they are the shit end of the stick. Believe it or not. They lack on factory design and quality. Such things as turbocharged gasoline vehicles (with tiny turbos) getting 30-35mpg city is not a well tuned vehicle. Such recall sites like myvwlemon.com! VW extended their warranty on cars that would blow up right after the warranty ended. From what i remember a 20 million dollar lawsuit. All the way to the point of extending their warranty out to save themselves and my girlfriend gets something in the mail to extend her warranty on her 2001 passat. 2001!!!!!

Being older has a lot to do with higher egt's. Im a mechanic, I know. First, your injector pump is worn. Either more or less fuel can dump into the cylinder at any given time. Second, clogged injector, same effect. Third, poor head quality or port size trapping heat in the combustion chambers. Not to mention half the time they didnt even use an intercooler on the older diesels.

Anyway back on track, sorry for thread jacking.

BSOD2600 · Post by **BSOD2600** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:00 am

Legacy777 wrote:
WhiteLegacyGuy wrote:My camera does not accept lenses at all. It's just a Canon Powershot SD780 IS
How are you liking that camera? That's what I've got, and I have been pretty happy with it. The video quality is pretty good.

OT:

I strongly recommend all Canon point & shoot camera owners to install the CHDK firmware addon. Adds lots of the stuff those big fancy DSLR cameras have for free... HDR images, variable rate compression videos, bracketing, histograms, customizable OSD, etc. Seems they don't have a mod for the SD780 -- yet though. Been using it with my SD700 IS for years now. Sample HDR image from my camera.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:05 am

Thanks for posting that. I'll have to keep an eye out for firmware updates

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:10 am

BSOD2600 wrote:I strongly recommend all Canon point & shoot camera owners to install the CHDK firmware addon. Adds lots of the stuff those big fancy DSLR cameras have for free... HDR images, variable rate compression videos, bracketing, histograms, customizable OSD, etc. Seems they don't have a mod for the SD780 -- yet though. Been using it with my SD700 IS for years now. Sample HDR image from my camera.

you are the F$%^ing MAN! Thank you!

206er · Post by **206er** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:25 am

93forestpearl wrote:The smaller VNT Garretts that are on the Powerstoke and Duramax use a PWM solenoid to control oil pressure to a piston. You could not change it to a mechanical system. If you have a standalone it is fairly easy to control, so that's why we use it.

At around zero manifold pressure, the vanes dip down a bit to get the turbo moving, then open up at various rates depending on rpm and the present load. A lot of time was spent to find the balance. A 4D map would be really nice to have even more control.

really cool stuff. how did you guys go about getting your standalone to talk to the vnt controller? seems like pretty uncharted territory with this kind of thing. what inputs does it use? TPS, boost, turbine speed, and what else?
I was looking at the GT2256V off a sprinter as an option but seems like theyd be a bit too small. then there isn't much readily available between that size and the powerstroke ones. but controlling them is the hard part. probably need to just get a standalone before screwing with it.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:56 am

It is just a simple 12v pwm signal. The solenoid has a very high inductance so a solid state relay needs to be in between.

On the standalone you can usually make a general purpose auxiliary map for it. Load and rpm for the axes seems to work the best. The standalone directly controls the solenoid.

We would like to have a turbo speed gauge, but Garrett is the only one who makes one, at its about $400. I want the vane position sensor that the Duramax units use, and it plugs right in.

Derek pioneered it, so he needs the credit. I held back because I wanted to see how well it worked. Now I'm on board.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:00 am

BSOD2600 wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:
WhiteLegacyGuy wrote:My camera does not accept lenses at all. It's just a Canon Powershot SD780 IS
How are you liking that camera? That's what I've got, and I have been pretty happy with it. The video quality is pretty good.
OT:

I strongly recommend all Canon point & shoot camera owners to install the CHDK firmware addon. Adds lots of the stuff those big fancy DSLR cameras have for free... HDR images, variable rate compression videos, bracketing, histograms, customizable OSD, etc. Seems they don't have a mod for the SD780 -- yet though. Been using it with my SD700 IS for years now. Sample HDR image from my camera.

I saw that actually a couple weeks ago in maximum pc magazine so I went on the site to download it for my 790IS and they don't have it for that model. I was bummed.

All I wish that this camera really had would be manual focus. Allow me to use the zoom thing for focus instead of zoom. I NEVER use the zoom feature so let me use it to focus instead. Pisses me off when the camera can't recognize what I'm trying to focus on and focuses on something in the background or something closer.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:00 pm

On my camera, I can focus on something, hit the shutter button quick to lock in the focus, then move the camera to whatever and it will keep that focal range for the photo, so you can focus on off-center stuff or something other than what the camera would normally recognize as a focal point. It's a 4-year old Kodak I bought on year-end sale for work, so maybe there's a feature on yours somewhere that does something similar?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:14 pm

Yeah, that's what you're forced to do. But a manual focus would still be nice.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:56 pm

93forestpearl wrote:It is just a simple 12v pwm signal. The solenoid has a very high inductance so a solid state relay needs to be in between.

On the standalone you can usually make a general purpose auxiliary map for it. Load and rpm for the axes seems to work the best. The standalone directly controls the solenoid.

We would like to have a turbo speed gauge, but Garrett is the only one who makes one, at its about $400. I want the vane position sensor that the Duramax units use, and it plugs right in.

Derek pioneered it, so he needs the credit. I held back because I wanted to see how well it worked. Now I'm on board.

Oooh...I could run it with the Megasquirt...I have an unused PWM circuit

I'm starting to think I need a VNT in my Audi...

Are they standard T3 flange or something goofy? (The Powerjoke turbo that is)

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:52 pm

It is a v-band that you can use a flange from ATP for.

Part number is atp-fls-099. Get a matching clamp and you're golden. I still need to get it since nobody has bought my turbo yet, lol. Get a piece of 2.25" pipe stretched to fit the inside of that flange and it works great.

As far as the outlet goes, get a stock Powerstroke DP and cut the flange off, or use it however you please. The Ford clamp is kinda spendy at about $30 though.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:38 pm

Hey guys, I'm curious about something about you all doing VNT turbos on these cars.

I've read that several VNT turbos, including the ones on Sprinters and Powerstrokes, have the exhaust brake built into the turbo. My understanding isn't very good, but I believe when coasting, the variable vanes close up.

This serves as a restriction in the exhaust and also generates a small amount of boost. The boost against the restriction creates the braking effect, I believe.

Do you all defeat this somehow when you install these on a gasoline car, or just leave it alone?

I would guess that it won't be able to do much with the minimal exhaust flow from a coasting gasoline engine, but if some boost is generated, I would think that would damage the turbo unless the blowoff valve stays open the whole time.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:55 pm

With computer control of the vanes anything is possible. We have it set on Derek's car so the vanes are fully open at light cruize. They don't close until the manifold pressure gets near zero. Even then they do not fully close, since a bunch of boost with a ton of backpressure doesn't make any power.

I guess we could change the map to have an exhaust brake if he wanted to. Close the vanes down at 20 in hg or something like that.

Some people have been using the Holset HE351ve (iirc) which is their version of variable geometry. However, they take the stepper motor off and use a wategate actuator, which is far from optimal. To have effective control you need to use a computer, as a few percent difference vane position can be the difference between surging the compressor or not.

Derek is using a really light spring in his BOV which is also helping to keep the compressor out of surge when lifting.

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20psi launch=Transmission Fail!