Manual Steering Legacy

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:23 pm

So I've noticed that my Legacy power steering pump doesn't seem happy with my hypermiling habits. i.e. coasting with the engine turned off. After a few days of consistent hypermiling, the power steering pump will start to have a shudder in it as I turn across having the wheels pointing straight ahead. Seems to me the simple solution would be to just convert the car to manual steering, but I don't know if any Subaru's ever had manual steering. Anyone here know if any Legacy's came with manual steering?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:08 pm

No. Drain the fluid from the rack and keep your tires inflated.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:27 pm

I've done a bit more research and found that some of the Subaru Loyals came with manual steering. Does anyone know if it would be possible to swap one of those into a Legacy? I know people have put plenty of EJ22's into those cars, so I've got the info I need for the PS delete on the engine itself (belt part numbers etc). I understand it would not be a bolt-in, but has anyone done this before?

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:50 am

you do realize that the car cuts of the injectors when you're coasting in gear with the car on, right?

and that you're probably using more fuel restarting the car.

and that it's incredibly unsafe.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:15 pm

Whether it fits or not, it might be difficult finding a Loyale with a manual rack unless you want to buy a new one. I remember when I had my much lighter '83/84 GLs (both manual, both fine without power), most of the other GLs I saw in the junk yards (back when you could still find them) were power racks. The GL/Loyale that came after was heavier, so I imagine the take up on P/S would have been higher.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:38 pm

jamal wrote:you do realize that the car cuts of the injectors when you're coasting in gear with the car on, right?

and that you're probably using more fuel restarting the car.

and that it's incredibly unsafe.

I have to disagree on all counts.

DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off) only turns off the injectors under specific conditions, i.e. above a certain RPM, when decelerating. Even in the case of when DFCO is engaged, you're still paying for the pumping and frictional losses of turning the engine over.

As per using more fuel, the average fuel injected car takes about 10 seconds worth of fuel to restart . . . and that's using the starter, a clutch bump-start probably uses only a fraction of that.

So, yes, EOC DOES save a significant measurable amount of fuel, go over to www.ecomodders.com or www.gassavers.org for further reading.

As far as the safety . . . not really unsafe. If you coast with the car in gear and the clutch depressed, a restart is only a clutch bump away, ABS still works with the key in the "on" position, and I'm plenty strong enough to perform emergency maneuvers with no power steering.

But I digress, this is really all besides the point. What I really want to know is if I can install a Loyale manual rack in my 1st gen Legacy, not hear uninformed opinions about all I'm doing wrong.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:45 pm

evolutionmovement wrote:Whether it fits or not, it might be difficult finding a Loyale with a manual rack unless you want to buy a new one. I remember when I had my much lighter '83/84 GLs (both manual, both fine without power), most of the other GLs I saw in the junk yards (back when you could still find them) were power racks. The GL/Loyale that came after was heavier, so I imagine the take up on P/S would have been higher.

Well I found a couple places that sell them new, and from wrecking yards, but I'd probably just spring for a new one anyways. From my research, and I could be wrong on this, manual steering was available on the Loyale as late as 1991. While a 1st Gen legacy would be roughly 500 lbs heavier than a 1991 Loyale . . . I don't think I'd have any problem with the added steering force.

I might just go to my local Subaru-only wrecking yard and see if he's got one of each I can put side by side. . .

ericem · Post by **ericem** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:04 pm

I have watched the injector pulse width and with my auto rolling at anything above 40km/h in 3rd the injectors go from the usual pulse of 2 range to 0.50-1 range. Really uses little little gas I am pretty sure on a restart it goes to 3-4 yet momentarily. If I coast everywhere with a automatic in 3rd I save alot of gas.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:49 pm

ericem wrote:I have watched the injector pulse width and with my auto rolling at anything above 40km/h in 3rd the injectors go from the usual pulse of 2 range to 0.50-1 range. Really uses little little gas I am pretty sure on a restart it goes to 3-4 yet momentarily. If I coast everywhere with a automatic in 3rd I save alot of gas.

That's interesting, what did you use to get access to the PW? Is your car an OBD1? Either way, I suspect a bump-start would avoid that momentary increase in PW, since it's not initiating the start sequence. And coasting up to a red light and sitting there for 3 minutes . . . engine-out will definitely save more fuel than engine-on coasting. If I could get a look at the PW while driving I could find out for sure . . .

biggreen96 · Post by **biggreen96** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:14 am

I have an apexi bosst controller that can tell me my injector duty cycle/pulse width. (btw are those the same thing?) Of course coasting in gear above, say 1300-1500, they reads zero. Coasting in gear below that they read like a normal idle and AFR's are like idle too.

The manual loyale racks might be geared easier as well... I'd like to hear how this turns out.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:56 pm

Well, I was at my local Subaru service shop (Smart Service - far and away the best in the area), and they had a trashed steering rack out of a legacy. Instead of them having it hauled off to scrap, I got to take it home for free. Now I have the legacy rack to measure off of! Even better, they told me there are several compatible Subaru end-links, of different lengths, so all I have to do is take some measurements, and then figure out which on to order. Should be diving into this early next year!

cj91legss · Post by **cj91legss** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:38 pm

So if you put a manual steering rack on your car, are you going to remove the pump and lines alltogether? if so, What are you going to do about a belt? I've went to auto pars stores looking for a belt that would just run crank pulley & alternator and could never find one.

samandw · Post by **samandw** » Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:04 pm

cj91legss wrote:So if you put a manual steering rack on your car, are you going to remove the pump and lines alltogether? if so, What are you going to do about a belt? I've went to auto pars stores looking for a belt that would just run crank pulley & alternator and could never find one.

Yep, that's the plan. I have a part number I found over on USMB that should do the trick.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/sho ... p?t=104879

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Manual Steering Legacy

Manual Steering Legacy