turbo sedan spoiler's

[NICO]

i have a question, does the oem spoiler on the turbo sedans help the car at all ?

all the speed record legacys and the legacy rs type r & type ra dont have spoiler's.

my preference on all my cars built, i all ways got rid of the spoiler's.

im trying to make this car even more aerodynamic then it all ready is. ( next maybe a scope delete )


any info would be great thank you.

[ericem]

No, I very much doubt it and I doubt it is creating any drag either. Don't you think it will look kind of naked without it though?

[Mattheww044]

I took mine off to paint it, and i personally thought it was the ugliest it had ever been. Spoiler FTW!! (as long as its just the stock one)

I really doubt it is helping or hurting us much or at all, but im no aerodynamics specialist

[SubiePrice88]

If you want real aerodynamics, do this mod:

[Apex3]

I'm sure it does something, but it's not gonna be noticeable either way. That being said, I think it's ugly without it.

[Mattheww044]

wow, that is the widest body kit I have ever seen.... its not even attached to the car.. and its sad if your spoiler is taller than a semi-truck on a car that probably maxes out at 80

[evolutionmovement]

Measure the angle from the rear of the roof to the trunk edge without the spoiler and from the roof to the spoiler. Greater than 15* means it doesn't do much of anything, less than that and it might help airflow reattachment and decrease drag. I have a feeling it doesn't do much or the record cars would definitely have used them. What might also work, probably in conjunction with the trunk spoiler, would be a wagon style spoiler off the roof, but angled down towards the trunk wing a few degrees to help the air make a smoother transition and reattach at th wing.

You'd probably see a decent improvement from covering the undercarriage with flat panels. If you can't/don't want to do that, the more you can reduce the air under the car, the better (lowering and/or airdams and sideskirts), but won't be as effective. A grille block will help as well. On mine, I'm thinking of blocking the upper grille and squeezing a sheet metal shroud behind the radiator to vent air up through a hole in the front of the hood. If you don't care about it looking funny, flat wheel covers or wheels can make an improvement, likewise wheel skirts. Too bad we can't ditch side mirrors and replace them with cameras (at least not yet). Mud flaps create drag, but an airdam in front of the tires can help (Saabs had these—they look like weird mud flaps forward of the tires). I think that maybe some small, vertical airfoils on the D-pillars that help direct airflow into the low-pressure zone behind the back window will help, but I think getting the angle right will walk a line between increasing or decreasing drag and probably isn't worth it. I also wonder if splitters along the side edges of the hoods, like a BMW 3.0 CSL Batmobile, would help direct air over the top of the car and decrease the amount of air that hits the fucking mirrors or turbulence along the A-pillar.

Unfortunately, without a windtunnel, it's difficult to tell how much/if you helped, though you could experiment with taped-on plastic and test. The problem then is that is tedious as everything interacts with each other and the more elements you add, the more testing against each other there is and the improvements are small so even setting up a repeatable experiment is near impossible. Too bad you're not OBDII as you could get a Scangauge and get real time mpg feedback—the better the mpg at a given load and speed, the lower your drag.

[kimokalihi]

I'm quite interested in creating some sort of panel for the bottom of the car to get rid of as much drag as possible. I think this would make a measureable difference. I'd like to try it on my metro.

How would you do this? What material would you use? Do you have any pictures of what a finished product looks like?

[NICO]

so many ways to look at this im going to measure it up and see if it even works. if it does not work, i am swaping trunks lids.

the undercarriage i made a flat panel in the front, the middle of the car is smooth its when you get in the rear it get's a little tricky to make one.

im going to have to try and make a front lip some how as close to the road as possible. that garden trim looks like it will work and if i rub or bump it, it flex's all right.

there must be something else that i can use, anyone with some tips let me know.

[evolutionmovement]

I had a Euro-style airdam on my '83 GL that wrapped around the sides. Never got around to it, but I was going to mount it with a metal rod across the top and springs to take the shock if I went down a dirt road fast. Ended up solid bolting it on with thumb screws so I could remove it quick when I didn't want to bother finding springs that would be stiff enough to withstand the air pressure, but give when impacted.

Covering the front and rear will be the best bang for your buck. The engine compartment generally contributes about 10% to the total drag and the rear has plenty of pockets for turbulence. Improving this is another win-win as it reduces lift as well as drag.

Reducing wake drag at the rear is much more effective than reducing drag on the front, so I'd be tempted to try the dual-spoiler idea I posted. In fact, if I didn't prefer wagons so much to sedans, I'd buy one and do it myself. If you wanted to go really crazy, you could build the rear into a teardrop like the Aero Civic, but hopefully without the poor craftsmanship. But even I'm not quite that mad. I probably would be if I didn't have my own design to build.

It's a shame cars are designed so badly. It's almost easier to design something from scratch than try to improve a pre-existing mess, which is why, as I see it, I'm forced to do just that.

[Legacy777]

I much prefer the look of the spoiler vs. no spoiler

A few no spoiler pics

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... arpass.jpg
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... rpass3.jpg
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... rpass5.jpg
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... tpass4.jpg

Spoiler pics

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... P_6993.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... P_6988.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... CN4859.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... CN4861.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... CN4858.JPG

[Apex3]

Make one of these for the bottom.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1715943

As mentioned above, your engine bay and trunk will create the most drag, mostly engine bay, the middle of the car is pretty flat and smooth in general.

Actually that link has me thinking about it I have a huge Road Closed sign that would be perfect for this.

[Adam West]

Has anyone weighted the stock spoiler?

Is this thread coming from the article in this months Grassroots Motorsports? Phil at Element tuning gave away quite a few speed secrets. Interesting read. He says STIs need a wing for proper handling at high speed. But says the stock wing is very heavy.

[Mattheww044]

No idea what the actual weight is on the spoiler, but its not much. Not enough to be worried about, I think it looks SO much better personally.

[Adam West]

Always wondered how the first gen WRX 'whale tail' spoiler would look on our cars. Anyone seen that done?

[NICO]

lol a lot of love for the spoiler on the turbo legacy's, i would like it off, but in the back of my head says keep it on lol.

i just got some flat aluminum panles to try and make something for the rear, it's going to be tuff to get this done.

[jefferson]

Just for the record, the endurance speed record cars did have the spoiler on them. If it was better to run without a spoiler for what they did I think they would have done it.

Jeff

[ericem]

Your 100% correct!! ^^

http://www.drive.subaru.com/Spr09/Spr09_20years.htm

[evolutionmovement]

Then they probably do help airflow reattachment. I'd be surprised if they produce much downforce, though.

[NICO]

WOW so they do have the spoiler, its so hard to see it.

so was the speed record cars legacy rs type r & type ra car's ? you guys just confused the crap out of me now lol.

so now what ? i guess i am keeping the wing becuse they used it for a reason i guess ?

[Bdub]

Mine works so well, the paint is peeling right off of it.

[Mattheww044]

what exactly do you mean by "works so well"? I don't think that its anything you would notice. Im guessing its mostly for design, but im sure it does SOMETHING beneficial as well

[Adam West]

It's a joke son! Joke about crappy Subaru paint...

I've heard that spoilers are to cars of the 90's what fins were to cars of the 50's.

If you want a real aerodynamic car buy a Prius <grin>

The 'shoe' shape is why all the rally cars basically look the same - Citroen Csara, Ford Focus, Subaru STi...all are same basic shape.

[evolutionmovement]

The new Mercedes E-class coupe beats the Prius for CD, though I'm sure it has larger frontal area. Nevertheless, the Prius is nowhere near aerodynamic enough for its ugliness, not that aerodynamic efficiency needs to mean ugly in the first place. Take a look at the Alfa Romeo BAT cars, for instance.

[Adam West]

Then there is power to weight to consider too. Prius might have leg up there on the E-class russian mafia ride.

Seriously will be looking at the Nissan Leaf for the family soon. Speaking of so ugly you could love it...

But then again I have a TRACK car for a daily driver <grin>