help with 93 legacy front struts
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help with 93 legacy front struts
Hi all. This is my first post in my life. Just found this forum tonight. I need your help in locating new front struts for my '93 Legacy, NA, non-air suspension sedan. The Subaru dealer's replacement struts and aftermarket strut manufacturers all seem to make the replacement struts taller than the originally manufactured OEM struts. I've contacted various Subaru specialy shops, parts shops, junkyards, Subaru dealers, etc across the country and so far no one knows of where I can locate the proper struts. Right now I have GR-2's on and they also make my front end sit about 1-3/4 inches higher than it originally sat. A specialty Subary repair shop put my car on the lift and confirmed it. I compare the stance of my car with other Subys I see on the road and my front end is the highest around. I'd appreciate any help you can give. Thanks!
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vrg3
- Vikash
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Are you sure you're talking about the original height?
Our cars ride a lot on the struts, so when the struts wear out, ride height decreases. Are you comparing the height with new struts to the height with your old worn-out struts?
Our cars ride a lot on the struts, so when the struts wear out, ride height decreases. Are you comparing the height with new struts to the height with your old worn-out struts?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Tell ya what I'll do.
I'll check my factory manuals and give you the measurement from the center of the hub to the wheel arch. You can see how the factory specs compare to your car.
I'll check my factory manuals and give you the measurement from the center of the hub to the wheel arch. You can see how the factory specs compare to your car.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
vrg3: I'm not EXACTLY sure what the original ride height is supposed to be but if you were to look at my Suby, I'm sure at a glance you'll agree that the front end sits higher than it should be. Just looking at the bottom of the side skirt below the front tire and compare that with the skirt in front of the rear tire it is easy to see that the front of the car is higher than the back.
Also, when I took it to that shop that specializes in repairing Subarus he lifted my car on one of his racks and there was no question in his mind (he's been a Suby mechanic since the 70's) that the replacement struts are not to the specs of the original struts.
The difference in height is where the spring plate is welded onto the strut itself. Through research from a friend of mine who is also an excellent mechanic and his connections with different partsmen, he found that the struts now made for the '90 to '94 Legacys have superceded part numbers, whereas originally the factory had different part numbers because the various struts all were built to different specs. Legally, after 8 to 10 years, any car manufacturer can opt to make a universal part that will fit various models (within certain tolerances).
The owner of that specialty Subaru repair shop showed me his manuals for those years and every one of the original part numbers for those years struts used to have different part numbers and now they all have one common part number to the front struts.
It was helpful to me to find out that I wasn't imagining things but that in reality the factory and aftermarket replacement struts are actually made to "higher" specs (but it't the wrong kind of "higher" for me). The challenge remains to find an aftermarket strut that will make the Suby ride at the proper height (a little lower would be okay, too); yet at the same time, I'm not able to afford to spend a tremendous amount on parts because my wife had gotten cancer, the regular medical doctors gave her no hope, so we had to go to alternative treatment, and now I'm looking at getting out of a HUGE debt.
But thank you for your reply. I appreciate your concern.
Legacy777: I'm looking forward to receiving that measurement. Thank you, too, for your help. Any suggestions you or anyone may have is very much welcomed!
Also, when I took it to that shop that specializes in repairing Subarus he lifted my car on one of his racks and there was no question in his mind (he's been a Suby mechanic since the 70's) that the replacement struts are not to the specs of the original struts.
The difference in height is where the spring plate is welded onto the strut itself. Through research from a friend of mine who is also an excellent mechanic and his connections with different partsmen, he found that the struts now made for the '90 to '94 Legacys have superceded part numbers, whereas originally the factory had different part numbers because the various struts all were built to different specs. Legally, after 8 to 10 years, any car manufacturer can opt to make a universal part that will fit various models (within certain tolerances).
The owner of that specialty Subaru repair shop showed me his manuals for those years and every one of the original part numbers for those years struts used to have different part numbers and now they all have one common part number to the front struts.
It was helpful to me to find out that I wasn't imagining things but that in reality the factory and aftermarket replacement struts are actually made to "higher" specs (but it't the wrong kind of "higher" for me). The challenge remains to find an aftermarket strut that will make the Suby ride at the proper height (a little lower would be okay, too); yet at the same time, I'm not able to afford to spend a tremendous amount on parts because my wife had gotten cancer, the regular medical doctors gave her no hope, so we had to go to alternative treatment, and now I'm looking at getting out of a HUGE debt.
But thank you for your reply. I appreciate your concern.
Legacy777: I'm looking forward to receiving that measurement. Thank you, too, for your help. Any suggestions you or anyone may have is very much welcomed!
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vrg3
- Vikash
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I'm sorry about your wife.
I didn't know they had changed the strut part numbers to more universal designs... That's interesting. Josh's manuals will confirm or refute this, but I thought our cars generally were supposed to ride a little higher in the front than the rear.
You say the difference is where the spring plate is attached... but might it be possible to correct the problem by relocating the lower bracket (that attaches to the hub)? Maybe you could get a skilled metalworking shop to cut the bracket off with a die grinder (maybe from an old set of struts so you could get more material that way) and then weld it back onto the strut further up?
I didn't know they had changed the strut part numbers to more universal designs... That's interesting. Josh's manuals will confirm or refute this, but I thought our cars generally were supposed to ride a little higher in the front than the rear.
You say the difference is where the spring plate is attached... but might it be possible to correct the problem by relocating the lower bracket (that attaches to the hub)? Maybe you could get a skilled metalworking shop to cut the bracket off with a die grinder (maybe from an old set of struts so you could get more material that way) and then weld it back onto the strut further up?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
vrg3, thanks for the suggestion! That just might work. The strut could be lowered 1-1/4 inch and stll have enough clearance for the cv boot. I do have a question on that, though. Would you know if welding the bracket up higher on the strut would either ruin the internals of the GR-2s or possible cause them to explode (due to the gas in them)?
And, oh yes, the clearance over the front tires are supposed to be higher than the rears but I'm pretty sure mine are higher than they should be. The measurement from the top of the rear tire to the bottom of the fender well is 1-7/8 inch but on the front there is a 4 inch spacing. Other Subys is my area have that front space measurement of 2-1/8 to 2-7/8 inches. All Subys have had stock tire sizes and stock steel or factory aluminum wheels. Yeah, I've been checking out other Suby's but I try not to be too obvious although I've had some people staring at me wondering what I'm doing with the measuring tape at one car then getting in my car and driving off. Heh heh, I get some funny expressions sometimes. At other times when I don't have my measuring tape handy, I walk to the other Suby, stand close to the front tire, put my finger on my leg where the fender well is then walk back to my car to compare the difference and mine is always higher. It's become a game to me now and I'm not as upset as I used to be but my Suby looks goofy to me (it reminds me of the swing axle VW Bugs after lowering them to the ground and the back end is jacked up and would only settle back down after driving them); and, of course, the handling is compromised.
And, oh yes, the clearance over the front tires are supposed to be higher than the rears but I'm pretty sure mine are higher than they should be. The measurement from the top of the rear tire to the bottom of the fender well is 1-7/8 inch but on the front there is a 4 inch spacing. Other Subys is my area have that front space measurement of 2-1/8 to 2-7/8 inches. All Subys have had stock tire sizes and stock steel or factory aluminum wheels. Yeah, I've been checking out other Suby's but I try not to be too obvious although I've had some people staring at me wondering what I'm doing with the measuring tape at one car then getting in my car and driving off. Heh heh, I get some funny expressions sometimes. At other times when I don't have my measuring tape handy, I walk to the other Suby, stand close to the front tire, put my finger on my leg where the fender well is then walk back to my car to compare the difference and mine is always higher. It's become a game to me now and I'm not as upset as I used to be but my Suby looks goofy to me (it reminds me of the swing axle VW Bugs after lowering them to the ground and the back end is jacked up and would only settle back down after driving them); and, of course, the handling is compromised.
I too have noticed the front-end jacking. Every picture I've seen on this board of a car with new struts has the front end sky high. I've actually been dreading doing my struts because of this.
I don't know if I would recommend hacking up the struts. I was thinking of evening mine out with springs. Which may not be the best either... but struts have such a high fatigue factor that I wouldn't really hack some up.
I don't know if I would recommend hacking up the struts. I was thinking of evening mine out with springs. Which may not be the best either... but struts have such a high fatigue factor that I wouldn't really hack some up.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16
62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
vrg3, a couple of more thoughts. First, thanks for your expression of sympathy about my wife.
Secondly, after having two sets of aftermarket struts installed, I had the factory struts intstalled. Wouldn't you know it, one of the struts leaked all of its oil out within 2 days -- total failure. The other side wasn't doing too well either. (I had the new Subaru replacement struts in my garage for a year so the dealership won't credit me for them and the Subaru partsman said that's why the strut failed because it was laying down on its side for all that time but others have told me that has nothing to do with the strut failure) Anyway, even though the strut was completely useless, the height of the front was still the same -- high, and not sagging. It appears that the spring was still holding up the car which led us to investigate the situation and find that the spring seat was welded in a different position.
Secondly, after having two sets of aftermarket struts installed, I had the factory struts intstalled. Wouldn't you know it, one of the struts leaked all of its oil out within 2 days -- total failure. The other side wasn't doing too well either. (I had the new Subaru replacement struts in my garage for a year so the dealership won't credit me for them and the Subaru partsman said that's why the strut failed because it was laying down on its side for all that time but others have told me that has nothing to do with the strut failure) Anyway, even though the strut was completely useless, the height of the front was still the same -- high, and not sagging. It appears that the spring was still holding up the car which led us to investigate the situation and find that the spring seat was welded in a different position.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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I'm sure you'd have to be very careful when welding on a gas strut... That's why I said a skilled metalworking shop rather than just any old place that owns a TIG outfit... I would imagine that too much heat could easily damage some of the seals or make the gas expand too much. Maybe it would be best to start by extending the strut to reduce pressure inside. Then of course you'd need to be as quick as possible using only as much heat as is necessary to get the job done. Brazing may be preferable to welding since it uses less heat. I don't know if it can be strong enough, though. It would also be important not to clamp the body of the strut in a vise or anything because that can damage the internals too.
I have never heard of oil struts failing due to being stored sideways... But I guess I could believe it. The oil could have flooded all around a seal or something. I dunno.
Brat, your advice about avoiding hacking the struts might be good to follow, since they do undergo a lot of stress. But the brackets and lower spring plate are in fact welded on from the factory, so there is welding going on.
I once stripped a front cam bolt and a shop had to cut it out with a cutting torch. The paint ended up flaking off that area of the strut and everything but aside from that the strut doesn't seem any worse for the wear despite the heat. It's been around 10,000 miles.
I have never heard of oil struts failing due to being stored sideways... But I guess I could believe it. The oil could have flooded all around a seal or something. I dunno.
Brat, your advice about avoiding hacking the struts might be good to follow, since they do undergo a lot of stress. But the brackets and lower spring plate are in fact welded on from the factory, so there is welding going on.
I once stripped a front cam bolt and a shop had to cut it out with a cutting torch. The paint ended up flaking off that area of the strut and everything but aside from that the strut doesn't seem any worse for the wear despite the heat. It's been around 10,000 miles.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
you didn't mention if your car is an AWD or FWD.
For n/a Sedan AWD:
From the center of the hub to the lip on the fender
Front: 388 +10/-20 mm (15.28 +0.39/-0.79 in)
Rear: 369 +10/-20 mm (14.53 +0.39/-0.79 in)
For n/a Sedan FWD:
From the center of the hub to the lip on the fender
Front: 378 +10/-20 mm (14.88 +0.39/-0.79 in)
Rear: 359 +10/-20 mm (14.13 +0.39/-0.79 in)
For n/a Sedan AWD:
From the center of the hub to the lip on the fender
Front: 388 +10/-20 mm (15.28 +0.39/-0.79 in)
Rear: 369 +10/-20 mm (14.53 +0.39/-0.79 in)
For n/a Sedan FWD:
From the center of the hub to the lip on the fender
Front: 378 +10/-20 mm (14.88 +0.39/-0.79 in)
Rear: 359 +10/-20 mm (14.13 +0.39/-0.79 in)
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Brat, thanks for the caution of hacking up the struts. All of the partsmen down here have discouraged me from welding on the struts.
Vrg3, on the other hand, I've emailed KYB to see if the tech dept can tell me if the struts are welded on before or after the internal components are installed. That might make a difference if I decide to have an experienced shop attempt to modify the struts.
Josh, thanks so much for getting those specs for me. My Suby in an AWD. Front distance, center of hub to lip of fender is 16.0 inches and rear is 14.0 inches. (Funny how the measurements are exactly 16 and 14 inches and not a fraction on either one of them.) Well, if I subtract 1-1/4 inches from 16 inches, it would put the ride height the same distance of .26 inches above the lower limit of the specs, the same distance that the rears are at right now.
Are there any aftermarket kits (struts and springs) that will end up lowering the front end 1-1/4 inches (if I can eventually afford them)?
You guys are great! Thanks so much for your helpful thoughts. I really do appreciate them!
Vrg3, on the other hand, I've emailed KYB to see if the tech dept can tell me if the struts are welded on before or after the internal components are installed. That might make a difference if I decide to have an experienced shop attempt to modify the struts.
Josh, thanks so much for getting those specs for me. My Suby in an AWD. Front distance, center of hub to lip of fender is 16.0 inches and rear is 14.0 inches. (Funny how the measurements are exactly 16 and 14 inches and not a fraction on either one of them.) Well, if I subtract 1-1/4 inches from 16 inches, it would put the ride height the same distance of .26 inches above the lower limit of the specs, the same distance that the rears are at right now.
Are there any aftermarket kits (struts and springs) that will end up lowering the front end 1-1/4 inches (if I can eventually afford them)?
You guys are great! Thanks so much for your helpful thoughts. I really do appreciate them!
I'm assuming you do have the same tires on all the way around correct?
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
hmmm....
Well....with my setup, GR2's before whitelinse & having a FWD car, mine were between 388-390mm. So acording to those specs and what I measured......I was around 10mm higher ride height then FSM specs.
So it may just be the GR2's.
Just get some lowering springs if it bothers you that much
Well....with my setup, GR2's before whitelinse & having a FWD car, mine were between 388-390mm. So acording to those specs and what I measured......I was around 10mm higher ride height then FSM specs.
So it may just be the GR2's.
Just get some lowering springs if it bothers you that much
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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evolutionmovement
- Knowledgeable
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The Gr2's definitely raised mine in the back, but I didn't notice a difference on the front. The OEM struts I had were hydraulic, while the GR2's are air charged and so I think they actually help the springs push the car up a little vs. the stock units. My car also didn't bottom out as bad or sag with people in the back (except my lesbian sister's, uh, 'special friend' who's on the larger side of small... Nothing could stop it sagging then 
).
Steve
).Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
Instead of screwing with the front, rewelding struts and such why not just weld a spacer on the rear springs so that ride height matches....
I did exactly this when creating a lift kit for my XT6. It took a couple times to get it right, but I think the welded portion of the spring is stronger than the plate it contacts!
The XT6 was air suspension, the new coil/strut is a combination of parts from all different vehicles. I ended up with something like 3 inches of travel in either direction front and rear and probably 7 inches average of clearance.
I did exactly this when creating a lift kit for my XT6. It took a couple times to get it right, but I think the welded portion of the spring is stronger than the plate it contacts!
The XT6 was air suspension, the new coil/strut is a combination of parts from all different vehicles. I ended up with something like 3 inches of travel in either direction front and rear and probably 7 inches average of clearance.
Thanks for your input, ciper. If I understand what you're saying, I could add spacers to the rear and lift the back end up higher another 1-1/4 inches and level out the car. If I did a lot of offroading, that may be a good route for me to go on but the vast majority of the time I find myself on city streets and interstates or mountain roads with cliffs or dropoffs just a few feet from the edge of the road. So, I'm trying to keep the stock ride height or even get it lower a tad bit for improved handling. Right now I have at least a 4 inch clearance from the top of the front tire to the fender lip -- I can easily stick my fist sideways between the tire and fender lip with no problem. With the front end sitting higher than before, there is a vagueness about the steering and the car's handling has deteriorated. From what I recall, the XT6s sat pretty low so lifting the car may have been okay but my car looks like it's just seen a spider and is starting to jump out of its shoes.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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You welded on a spring? I'd be worried about changing or removing the temper of the steel, changing (or losing) the springiness...ciper wrote:Instead of screwing with the front, rewelding struts and such why not just weld a spacer on the rear springs so that ride height matches....
I did exactly this when creating a lift kit for my XT6. It took a couple times to get it right, but I think the welded portion of the spring is stronger than the plate it contacts!
Why not just fabricate a spacer that fits between the spring and the top mount?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
vrg3: I welded on front and rear springs as a matter of fact. I also welded dissimilar metals.
You could be right about the heating, except that I welded the "flat" portion of the spring where the dead coil lives. It doesnt provide any spring to begin with so Im not worried about it.
Besides, this car is a total dirt beater and I so far everything has held very well. On a street car it would never see the same stress.
93Leg-c: 4 inches? Ill measure one of my cars. it almost sounds to me like something else is going on. I have three legacy to mess with that have GR-2 installed (2 sedan and a wagon) and even one with AGX meant for an impreza installed. The spring perch location is not that much difference.
You could be right about the heating, except that I welded the "flat" portion of the spring where the dead coil lives. It doesnt provide any spring to begin with so Im not worried about it.
Besides, this car is a total dirt beater and I so far everything has held very well. On a street car it would never see the same stress.
93Leg-c: 4 inches? Ill measure one of my cars. it almost sounds to me like something else is going on. I have three legacy to mess with that have GR-2 installed (2 sedan and a wagon) and even one with AGX meant for an impreza installed. The spring perch location is not that much difference.