The "i want one" list

[entirelyturbo]

If you're implying anyone would think the Bugatti was better, that would be like saying a 1956 Chrysler 300C was better than a Duesenberg J because it was faster, and anyone who thought that would be wrong. Opinions can be either or, but sometimes they're just plain wrong.

You'd be shocked how many people disagree with me, to even go so far as to call the F1 a junkpile in comparison.

I'll give the Veyron its credit... Gordon Murray drove it and was quite impressed. But if 20 more mph top speed is all that 20 years of technological innovations can do for it, then I'd rather keep it simple and go with the F1.

Besides, I don't see anyone racing the Veyron.

[SILINC3R]

i think they should not be compared against each other. they are completely different beasts. one is somewhat track oriented and one is somewhat of a luxury car that happens to be able to do 250 mph. they are both amazing. but i think it is amazing what they were able to acieve with the Veyron considering how much it weights. 4 turbos, 10 radiators, $25,000 per tire. a car that can run out of fuel in 12 miles if at top speed with tires that will only last 15 minutes at top speed maybe stupid and point less but they were able to do it. i am sure they will never race the Veyron it is just to big and it was never designed for that purpose.

[kimokalihi]

10 radiators...blows my mind every time. I want to see all these radiators and where they're located.

[evolutionmovement]

The Veyron is actually pretty small (probably about the size of a 911), which makes its weight all the more remarkable. It's like they made it out of uranium. I think it's a completely stupid car. I could probably build a kit car that would go just as fast for well under $100k with a turbocharged LS engine and have it be more reliable (in fact, an Ultima GTR beat it from 0-100-0 and I bet it would take it on track also). All it is is a big, overcomplicated hammer where the McLaren was a precision surgical instrument made by a craftsman. Put enough power in anything and you can do 250. An intelligent car wouldn't need so much power to overcome the limitations of bad aerodynamics (and it's really not that good looking for that) and terrible packaging. It's very typically German in its overcomplicated solutions to simple(ish) problems or the use of brute force to conquer the issues inherent to flat out dumb basic design. It may work, but it's anathema to the principles of good design and engineering. Even a construction worker knows you don't build a house on a bad foundation.

I'm quite sure Ettore and Jean Bugatti would not approve either, not just mechanically (the real Bugattis had plenty of issues themselves, but usually from trying to oversimplify—like eliminating gaskets claiming precision manufacturing negated the need for them when all it did was guarantee leaks), but also on aesthetics with that completely forced old Bugatti grille grafted onto the design. I can't believe anyone with a basic appreciation for manufacturing, engineering, design, and craftsmanship who had actually seen and looked carefully at both cars (as I have) to see the difference would think the Bugatti the better of the McLaren. So, it does a few mph faster, what are we 10? Where the hell can you even do 200, let alone 250 (which you'd also have to get the special tires for that have to be installed by Bugatti techs)? It's completely academic. I will say that the interior is very nice, but then I'd pick a Pagani Zonda as its interior is also nicely built, but it's far more interesting a design as well. Of course, I'd have my old Legacy on the road again over any of them.

[93forestpearl]

A car that satisfies all regulations in all states is tough to do Steve, and I doubt you could do it yourself and offer several for sale for less then $1M each, and offer a warranty.

Apples to oranges.

[evolutionmovement]

The point is that the Bugatti is a series of complicated compromises to overcome a bad concept for the sake of a stupid marketing gimmick. There's no genius to it and, unlike the McLaren or real Bugattis, although it was conceived by one man's ego, it isn't a product of a single visionary, but a bought name engineered around the problems of a bad design to sell to morons with too much money and too little self esteem. Throw enough money at anything, like VW did, and elegant, intelligent design is unnecessary to satisfy an objective. Throw enough power at a brick, as they did, and it will fly. If there's any doubt in that, look at the long delays it took for the Bugatti to make it to market as the engineers banged their heads against the wall to get the ugly pig to make its otherwise pointless marketing goal of being the fasest production car. 250 mph is pretty underwhelming for ~1000 hp and entirely irrelevant in reality, yet is the sole purpose for its existence. Well, that and Piech's enormous ego. Though failure wasn't likely an option in such a high-profile venture and they would've kept banging away no matter what the cost, it otherwise wouldn't have even existed if it didn't make 250 mph as it wouldn't have satisfied Piech's ego or been marketable to the type of fools they were aiming at. It would have been, appropriately, a white elephant, which some journalists were calling it before it actually went on sale in the first place as they had so much trouble in development getting it to go fast enough.

Look how comparatively little power it took McLaren to get nearly that far, how much less it weighs, plus it's a unique layout, handles better, is reported to be better to drive at lower speeds, and while also being small (which makes a low drag shape difficult), but doesn't suffer from the level of poor aerodynamics as the Bugatti (which isn't even very attractive—even the design, with is comically bad use of the real Bugatti's trademark grille, is cynical). I can say nearly the same for Pagani and Koenigsegg as I can for McLaren, even if they aren't as visionary, and they sell without needing to be quite as fast. 250 mph could be done far more intelligently with better aerodynamics, lower weight and less pointless over complexity (and with such complexity engineered by VW, I wonder how many times it could do 250 before the thing needs to be completely overhauled or blew up in the middle of a run). If the car didn't beat 240 mph, it would be thought of with the same derisive snickers reserved for the DeLorean—another concept with flawed execution that suffers its fate over the Veyron only by not having a rich parent company to pour enough money into it to prevent it from being a failure. But even the DeLorean's idea of being a safe sports car was a more mature concept, surprisingly with John DeLorean and which goes to show what a child Piech is. Gordon Murray is one of the most clever out-of-box thinking designers in the industry and Piech is an overrated engineer and salesman who got by on a family name and their respective products reflect this. I know who's product I'm going to respect.

Sorry, for the long arguments, but I passionately hate the fake Bugatti and the "thinking" behind it. It's an abomination to art—a computer concocted symphony being compared to Beethoven. Beethoven didn't set out to beat anyone—he was just Beethoven and that's what he did. Gordon Murray set out to build the best supercar, not to beat anyone, but just to build the best. In any industry, there are artists and there are salesmen that exploit and pervert the essence of art for profit or ego. The Bugatti being the latter, I find it wholly offensive. Apples to oranges would be F1 to Veyron. Fast well-built kit car to Veyron is granny smith to russet.

[kimokalihi]

Veyron Super Sport hits 267mph

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/veyr ... 2010-07-06

The Bugatti Veyron Super Sport has set a new production car land speed record, hitting 267mph at VW's Ehra-Lessien proving ground. 267mph. Well, 267.91mph to be precise, or 431.072km/h, thrashing the 256.23mph set by the SSC Ultimate Aero in Nevada in 2007.

Then again, the Veyron Super Sport is an astonishing car. Effectively the final iteration of the Veyron, it shares the same 8.0-litre, 16-cylinder engine, but with larger turbos and bigger intercoolers to push power to 1,183bhp, a jump of 196bhp. Torque increases from 921lb ft to 1106lb ft.

It's lighter than the standard Veyron, too: that black'n'orange skin is constructed solely from carbon fibre, saving around 50kg. The Super Sport gets stiffer suspension, aiding high-speed stability and allowing lateral acceleration of 1.4g. Good work if you've spotted the new NACA ducts and reworked double diffuser.

The Super Sport will hit 62mph in the same 2.5 seconds as the standard Veyron (and never was such an adjective less appropriate), but its 0-124mph and 0-186mph times are reduced to 7.3 seconds and 15.0 seconds. 124mph in just over seven seconds. Yowch.

I still don't really care for it but that is pretty fast.

[93forestpearl]

Steve, what do you type a minute, lol.


I don't disagree with you at all. The Veyron is an engineering exercise with certain constraints, nothing more, nothing less. Look at the Lexus LFA. A ton of money for something that is outperformed by a car that costs less. They merely are cars that engineers were allowed to run wild with. They had to adhere to certain goals, so the end result is what you see advertised. If I was involved in either project, I wouldn't apologize for the result.

[kimokalihi]

The lexus LFA is a sweet car but not worth the price tag. When I saw that car on Top Gear I was like damn that's hot but then they talked about the price and I was like, WTF?

[Kelly]

How do you REALLY feel about it Steve lol!

And your totally right. The car is a gimmick. Four turbos is just a sales pitch and its funny that they were more important than being able to cool the thing in the first place. (seems like there still must be some Italian design influence in there somewhere!)

[TonyAWD]

I always wanted one of these. Not sure why really, i just like old school cars. I think its from a watched Initial D all those years ago.



And yeah the LFA is a waste. Cool car, but not fast enough to justify the price.

[familydad]

no harm going old school, i wouldnt mind having one myself

[kimokalihi]

Oh yeah AE86. I've thought about buying one myself but they're a bit expensive for how old they are.

[TonyAWD]

Oh yeah AE86. I've thought about buying one myself but they're a bit expensive for how old they are.

Yeah, the most recent one in my area was in worse shape than my car,(body was rusted to hell) and he wanted 5 grand for it.

[kimokalihi]

Exactly I saw a pretty decent one for $6,000!

[Apex3]

Drift tax FTL

Apparently there's a kid in my friend's neighborhood that bought one from a guy in the area for $1500, I haven't seen it but I guess it's really nice and only has 100k on it, hatch too

[kimokalihi]

That's a steal! They just look like they'd be a lot of fun. I've never owned a RWD car before. Especially one that can rev over 8,000 RPM.

[familydad]

ok i used to own a 1980 plymoth firearrow, now it not an arrow truck and its not a champ, it was plymoths reply to the AE89. that car was a blast, 4 banger with a 5 speed, 4 wheel disc brakes, RWD, and LIGHT. this car musta had a magnet on the back because semis loves to tailgate me in it. but boy that car would scream and it was the first car i ever drifted, out in the back roads of machias.

[gijonas]

[TonyAWD]

The only other toyota i would drive.

[evolutionmovement]

This is the only Toyota I would drive:





Smaller and more curvaceous than the overrated E-Type (the long hood, like a D-Type with the nose pulled taught to straighten the curves, especially with the roadster, always reminds me of a penis where its D-Type/XKSS predecessor is like a beautiful woman). The goofy front details and fussy taillights (the tail was the part the E-Type really nailed down) fade away in person with the delicate proportions. It bothers me that the 2000GT (even though designed by the German who did the BMW 507—one of the very few German cars I would say is beautiful) is dismissed as a copy of European cars when all GTs of the era had these same traits, yet none of the Europeans get accused of hacking the other's style. The automotive press has always been Eurocentric.

[SILINC3R]

1972 Skyline 2000GTR- only about 30-40 grand for one like this

[Jester808]

I really want an SS, 90-91 with a 5MT.

[originalcyn]

More like, i want it to run better or to go away....

[Apex3]

Got something interesting under that hood?

That's a steal! They just look like they'd be a lot of fun. I've never owned a RWD car before. Especially one that can rev over 8,000 RPM.

You're missing out I miss my e30 granted it only revved to 7.2k, but no matter what I do to the Legacy it just doesn't have the same feel. I'll be graduating soon enough though which means I can start my m3 project so excite!