Good replacement for 90-94 Legacy SS 4EAT????

[shaggy0072]

I have a 92 Legacy SS auto, transmission is toast. I need to know what a good "newer automatic transmission" would be a suitable replacement.

[wtdash]

Your main issue will be electrical = TCU, if you want something newer than '94.

The '95+ are OBD2 on the ECU side and from what I've read on the USMB site, don't work w/the older stuff - even though they may plug in - the actual wiring is different.

The '92-94 Legacy Turbo and Non-turbo used the same final drive ratio - 3.90, which you'll need to watch out for. A '90-91 is 4.11 and will work, but you'll need to swap the rear differential, too. A '93-94 Impreza is also 4.11.

If you find a low mileage 4EAT, and if it's from a wrecking yard, ensure the car has body damage - otherwise it might be there for a bad trans!
GL,
Td

[ericem]

To bad we can't use wrx automatics? I swapped my car to 5spd after several transmissions and the failures ranged from loosing gears, torque converter not locking up, awd not working, and front differential seizing!

[shaggy0072]

What are the differences between turbo and non turbo 4EAT's?

[wtdash]

Larger diameter Torque Converter (TC) and flexplate, more clutches (?), and a different TCU (not sure what else). If you go w/a non-turbo 4EAT get the TCU, too. It's a direct replacement as far as plugging in, but it is calibrated differently from my experience.

TD

[shaggy0072]

I have a 92 LSI donor. I assume I can re-use the torque converter from the turbo tranny? Have you ever had a turbo 4EAT rebuilt, or attempted yourself? I was told about $1400... I think I could do it myself for less than half of that. I have already replaced the front differential... I love my car, I'm just not too fond of the transmission they put in it...

[wtdash]

Yes, reuse the turbo TC.

I don't know YOUR level of mechanical experience....so FWIW:

BE VERY CAREFUL when separating the transmission from the engine and vice versa. You can mess up the trans' internals if done incorrectly (unless you're getting rid of the original trans).

There are multiple posts over on the USMB about 'seating' the TC and what parts to replace when putting in a 'new/used' trans.

From what I've read it's not easy to rebuild an AT. Unless yours has something simple to replace, it's not a job for the novice.

$1400 is a lot, but if you plan on keeping the car, it's cheaper than buying a new(er) car, if you spread the cost over a few years. If the rest of the car is in good condition, it's definitely worth it, IMHO. Plus, unless you KNOW the LSi is in good condition, you may spend a lot less initially but if you do it twice, what's the overall cost in (down)time and money?

The 4EAT gets a bad rap but I think it's due more to negligence than a design flaw. Keep the fluid changed, install a cooler and don't 'launch it', and it'll last...and hold more power than the 5-speed.

GL,
TD

[subydaddy]

I had to relace my transmission last year. My car is a 92 SS. I used an auto from a 95 Impreza. Because of the difference in gearing I reused the front diff and had to swap a couple parts in the transmission, it wasn't too bad, Just took a while due to lack of motivation on my part. I was limited to what I could find here in Alaska or I would have gone a different route. I got help from a member on here too but if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I added an external cooler at the time and it's still running strong this year. I ordered the 4eat rebuild book already though. Not planning on it holding up forever.

Stage 2 Revtronix (TD04, TMIC, Alky, short ram intake, light weight pulley, 3" catless turbo back, equal length headers, 550cc injectors, LSD, A/C delete)

[wtdash]

I used an auto from a 95 Impreza.

The '95 Impreza Auto had the 2.2 and was OBD2 (and was a 4.11 FD??) - in the US.
- Did the connectors work fine?
- What TCU are you using?
- Does it shift as good as before?

Thanks

[shaggy0072]

Yeah same questions: I live in the mountains of NC, there are a load of imprezas around here... What did you have to change inside the case. I just replaced my FD, then my tranny started slipping... Fun, fun.

[subydaddy]

Plugs were the same.

Car runs exactly the same as before, Power/manual mode and all.

After you seperate the front diff and rear housing from the transmission there will a shaft/rod thing that runs through the transmission. Front teeth connect to the front diff and the rear of the rod connects to another gear type thing that runs the rear wheels. Take that rod out (there is a big nut in the rear and four small bolts on the front)

Swap that to your new transmission, reuse your front diff and torque converter and the other skinny rod you put your torque converter on. If I remember right you could use either of the two rear housings but I don't remember for sure. I think I used my old rear housing just to be safe.

I have pictures floating around somewhere that I'll try to locate for you guys.

Here you go, was able to track this down, Much thanks again to All_talk for helping me through this last year. The car is still running today (well not exactly today, my radiator just cracked)

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=21482

I'll still look for my pictures and if anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

[wtdash]

^^Thanks....that is great info for future reference....and a post I've missed.

TD

[cha914]

I was going to post a new thread, but just ran across this one...I have a 93 legacy wagon 2.2 n/a motor, stock stock stock, and with 278K on the clock. My 4EAT has been starting to slip in reverse for about a year now, and its starting to get bad (can't back up any kind of an incline, flat ground is OK, but slow, really have to baby it to go anywhere).

So question is, do I have the trans rebuilt or buy a good used. It looks like I can get a used 92-94 4eat for ~500 bucks give or take, but these are all from junk yards with little to no info on its history. I have gotten one quote for 1200 to rebuild my current one, which sounds a little on the steep side, but not terrible.

From a quick search I can buy a much lower mile 97-98 impreza 4eat for the same ~500 bucks. which sounds like a little better risk than the older legacy used transmissions.

What do you guys suggest, and do any of you know offhand any suby specialists in Texas (Austin specifically) that you'd trust for a rebuild (I really don't want to have to swap the trans twice).

Thanks for the help,

Tony

[subydaddy]

Check this place out

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/subaruindex.shtml

They sell rebuild kits along with a book to help you out if you feel like doing it yourself.

I'd recommend just going used but that's me and I'm pretty cheap. Yes you can go newer impreza if you want but I'd inspect your front diff. before buying anything. You'll need to reuse it with the impreza transmission and when I took my front diff off I was missing some teeth and it took me a while to find someone willing to sell just the front diff. I realize mine was a freak incident but just something to be aware of.

Do the junk yards know the mileage and if their transmissions work?

When I bought my car reverse was acting like yours. Then one night (about 8 months later) I had someone riding my ass on my way home so I punched it. Then I pulled up to my garage, put it in reverse to straighten up and it just rev'd. So I put it in gear and it died Took everything the car had just to get into the garage.

Congrats on 278k!

[canubaru]

$1200 sounds low for a rebuild to me. if that includes removal and installation it might be the way to go.

a 500$ trans is going to cost $300 - $500 to install unless you do it your self.

you cannot use a 97 - 98 impreza since it will have a different final drive ratio. your auto trans should have a 3.9 final drive ratio. you will need one from 90 - 94, none of the later ones have that, they have a 4.11 or a 4.44. and turbos are different, i think.

so look for a trans here:

www.car-part.com sort your search by distance , shipping is expensive.

you may be able to check your final drive ratio here:

http://opposedforces.com/parts

[subydaddy]

I think he'll be doing the parts swap talked about in this thread to make the newer Impreza transmissions work. I always hate to assume anything though.

[wtdash]

$1200 sounds low for a rebuild to me. if that includes removal and installation it might be the way to go.

a 500$ trans is going to cost $300 - $500 to install unless you do it your self.

you cannot use a 97 - 98 impreza since it will have a different final drive ratio. your auto trans should have a 3.9 final drive ratio. you will need one from 90 - 94, none of the later ones have that, they have a 4.11 or a 4.44. and turbos are different, i think.

so look for a trans here:

http://www.car-part.com sort your search by distance , shipping is expensive.

you may be able to check your final drive ratio here:


http://opposedforces.com/parts

No offense but there's some misinformation in this post:
'90-91 Legacy non-turbo AWD Automatics were 4.11
'92-94 and All turbo AWD automatics (yes, including '91) were 3.90

EDIT: FWD Automatic Legacys were 3.70, I believe (it should be on here somewhere else, too).

'95+ Legacy (non-Outback/GT/LSi) were 4.11; OB/GT/LSi were 4.44....w/the EJ25.

The '93+ Impreza may well be 3.90...I know they aren't necessarily the same as the Legacy.

Ensure you get the TCU w/the trans.

$1200 for a rebuild is cheap...if you plan on keeping the car, even w/278K, it's worth it, IMHO.

GL,
TD

[canubaru]

No offense but there's some misinformation in this post:
'90-91 Legacy Automatics were 4.11
'92-94 and All turbo automatics (yes, including '91) were 3.90

'95+ Legacy (non-Outback/GT/LSi) were 4.11; OB/GT/LSi were 4.44....w/the EJ25.
[/quote]

i know the 95 - 99 lego 2.2L autos are 4.11 and manuals are 3.9. but it was my understanding that 90 - 94 were the opposite. i have been corrected before when i assumed they were the same as 95 - 99. but if you know for sure i'll believe you.

[wtdash]

No offense but there's some misinformation in this post:
'90-91 Legacy Automatics were 4.11
'92-94 and All turbo automatics (yes, including '91) were 3.90

'95+ Legacy (non-Outback/GT/LSi) were 4.11; OB/GT/LSi were 4.44....w/the EJ25.

i know the 95 - 99 lego 2.2L autos are 4.11 and manuals are 3.9. but it was my understanding that 90 - 94 were the opposite. i have been corrected before when i assumed they were the same as 95 - 99. but if you know for sure i'll believe you.

Yes, sir....the '90-91 non-turbo AWD Autos were 4.11 (actually '89-91 to be technically correct). This is one thing I personally have experience with.

Thanks,
TD

[shaggy0072]

OK, OK, final drive ratio aside. Question is: up to what year transmission can you utilize for a replacement? I replaced the front diff on mine without much difficulty. You just have to pay attention...

[canubaru]

subaru is a fairly small car company compared the US giants. so they generally use the same trans for all of the cars in the same year, but modified them by using different front and rear diffs and the TCU programming.

(this is not always exactly true, especially in change over years, loyal to legacy or with unique cars like svx, maybe.)

so the center part of the auto trans , the gear shifting part, is pretty much unchanged 90 - 99. yes there were changes but they were minor, some gear ratios in the trans were different. but the trans for the outback / GT was basically the same as the trans for the 94 lego.

so if the rear diff matches, and that could be hard to determine, you could use any auto trans 90-99. but i would stick with your body style 90 - 94. but they all bolt in and the wiring SHOULD be the same up untill 99 and the phase 2 trans.

[canubaru]

Yes, sir....the '90-91 non-turbo AWD Autos were 4.11 (actually '89-91 to be technically correct). This is one thing I personally have experience with.

Thanks,
TD

TD, what about this post #6:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/sho ... post919446

and post 4 seems to support a 4.11 diff ratio for the manual trans 90-94. and i have never seen a year where the manuals and autos were the same ratio. (not counting turbos.)

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/sho ... diff+ratio*

anyway i'm going to quit answering rear diff questions for 90 - 94. i can't get it right.

i know 95 - 99, so i'll stick with those questions.

good luck.

[cha914]

Hey guys, thanks for all the input. The 1200 I quoted for the rebuild was just for the rebuild, not the cost to pull it and everything else.

Basically, I am definitely keeping the car, I refreshed the suspension, cv's, drive shafts, etc a couple years ago, the body is very solid, and I just love having a car that always does what I ask it to do, its the car I loan out when parents come into town, etc...

Since this is the first money I have had to spend on the car in 2-3 years, so you are right, 1200 is cheap. I also have a rear engine oil leak that I will get fixed (rear main or inspection plate). Are there any other "while you are in there" items you guys would have looked at/fixed?

I will eventually want to stuff a 2.2T motor into the car and upgrade the brakes and maybe even see if I can add a little suspension lift and make it my sleeper rally car ... but with two other car projects already waiting, I need this car to continue to be my workhorse.

I appreciate all the help, and I will probably be asking some more questions about go fast goodies in the near future

Tony

[Legacy777]

Here's all the final drive info on the first gen legacies, (direct from the sticky in this forum).

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=32148

[shaggy0072]

Does anyone know where to get good quality rebuild kits for a 4EAT? Has anyone here tackled a rebuild themselves? Surely it can't be too difficult... I may be wrong.