Need advise. BC Legacy and ej20tt

[tsbpenguin]

Hey all. Financial changes in my life forced me to get rid of my expensive girlfriend (01 Audi S4). Now I'm looking for a more realistic and reliable way to roll around. I previously owned a 92 Legacy L awd 5spd with 230k miles and loved it! Whole family drives subarus. Anyways a good friend of mine has a ej20tt (not sure if it's the h or the r) that i could pick up for substantially cheaper than ebay prices. It comes with everything from manual tranny to slave cylinder to flywheel and clutch (engine and tranny are still assembled.)

There are two 93 legacy's for sale in my area for 600 bux. One is fwd and has a bad tranny, the other is awd and potentially needs a head gasket. Both are automatics.

Now to clear things up, I've done some research and know the basics. I'd be planning on converting it to a single turbo setup or at least modifying the plumbing to fit.

My questions:
What other components do I need to swap the manual into the auto body (ex. what shifter linkage will fit, shifter, pedals, etc)
Would it be better to attempt the wiring harness or just go full standalone? Anything in between?
What rear diff would I need?
Should I get a custom driveshaft and axles, or are there factory substitutes that will suffice?
What engine/tranny mounts can I use?
Anything I'm missing?

Appreciate all input.

[Legacy777]

Are you located in the US or overseas?

Regarding the auto to manual swap. Check out my AWD & 5spd swap write-up. You'll find the info you need there regarding swapping in a manual.
www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap

What are your power goals?

You will likely run into issues swapping the entire car harness or even engine harness since the ej22t motor is going to have some additional sensors compared to the first gen legacy. Also, the ECU is going to be located in a different spot. If you can stay with a stock ECU that can be tuned, that'd be the way I'd recommend. Obviously a stand alone is going to give you full flexibility to do whatever you want, but it takes a considerable amount more work not only in the front end for setup, but the back end for tuning and tweaking.

Regarding the rear diff, driveshaft, and axles, what kind of power are you looking to make? If it's under 350-400 whp, use the stock stuff, it should be fine. There's a couple people running 300 whp and the diff, axles, and driveshaft are the least of your worries.

You can use pretty much any EJ motor series mounts. I'd suggest picking up a set of STi hardened mounts for both engine & trans.

[tsbpenguin]

Thanks for all the info and the link, bookmarked it.

Out of the gates I'm looking for 300awhp ish. I'd like to accomplish it with the single turbo, fuel mods (how are the stock injectors on the ej20tt's?), exhaust, IC, and some form of tuning. I'd also prefer to run e-85. What are my injector/pump options for that?

What would be a good ecu to run on the ej20tt? Keep in mind the legacy body will be non turbo so I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to use it's ecu. I've read that wrx ecu's are a possible solution since they are also 2.0 turbo, however the 2.0tt has the higher flowing heads from what i've heard. Can you compensate for that in the tune on a wrx ecu?

Is 4.11 the final drive on the ej20tt manual? Are there any axles/driveshafts that I can substitute (ex. wrx, sti, legacy ss, etc)? I have a feeling the ej20tt specific ones would be harder to find.

Thanks again

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I'm in Colorado

[mike-tracy]

Here's some reading for you: The author Reuben can answer all your questions, since he has owned several TT's. As far as I know, there are no active members of legacy central running twin turbos, or who are super technically proficient with them. But I could be wrong.


http://sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10991

Good luck,
Mike

[kimokalihi]

What would be a good ecu to run on the ej20tt? Keep in mind the legacy body will be non turbo so I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to use it's ecu. I've read that wrx ecu's are a possible solution since they are also 2.0 turbo, however the 2.0tt has the higher flowing heads from what i've heard. Can you compensate for that in the tune on a wrx ecu?

I may be wrong here but I believe the flow of the heads won't effect the way the ECU runs the motor because it will go by how much airflow your MAF is reading. More airflow = more fuel.

Also, it's not an EJ20TT. That's not a real engine code. It's EJ20H for the twin turbo. The injectors will need to be upgraded as well as the turbo and you'll need a piggy back or most likely stand alone to reach those HP numbers you're looking for. Plus wiring changes and you'll have to block off the plumbing for oil and coolant for the turbo you are removing and you'll need a new intake (you can make the manifold work but the intake to the turbo needs to be custom) and a whole slew of other custom stuff.

If it were me I would abandon that idea. It sounds cheap getting into it but once you start going with it and come across all the problems of making that work you'll wish you hadn't taken it on. To get the power goals you're going for and using all that mismatched stuff you'll probably have spent enough to buy an S4 when you're all done with it.

[cj91legss]

Another issue you're going to have is You will need to drill out the holes for your clutch master cyl in your firewall, and if you don't have a 5 speed turbo legacy pedal assy. you will need to get one.

[tsbpenguin]

Also, it's not an EJ20TT. That's not a real engine code. It's EJ20H for the twin turbo. The injectors will need to be upgraded as well as the turbo and you'll need a piggy back or most likely stand alone to reach those HP numbers you're looking for. Plus wiring changes and you'll have to block off the plumbing for oil and coolant for the turbo you are removing and you'll need a new intake (you can make the manifold work but the intake to the turbo needs to be custom) and a whole slew of other custom stuff.

If it were me I would abandon that idea. It sounds cheap getting into it but once you start going with it and come across all the problems of making that work you'll wish you hadn't taken it on. To get the power goals you're going for and using all that mismatched stuff you'll probably have spent enough to buy an S4 when you're all done with it.

Actually since it is manual, it is either ej20R or ej208 (the higher power output than ej20H). From some of the links posted earlier, I've read that standalone is most likely unnecessary.

Blocking oil/coolant passages is no problem. Creating an intake to the turbo is about as basic as it gets. I'm not necessarily trying to say that this swap is going to be CHEAP, but it's definitely going to be cheaper than my other options. Not sure why you'd think i'd be equaling the cost of an s4. Get real. With the cost of the legacy, the motor and transmission, a single turbo, and a couple upgrades, I would still be under the cost of a TRANSMISSION REPLACEMENT on an S4.

I'm not asking for opinions on whether you think it's a cheap, easy swap. I already know it's not. What I'm asking for is technical information on things like, can I use wrx or sti driveshaft and axles or does it need to be specific to the ej20r/ej208? etc

I don't understand why everyone gets shy'd away from taking on this project because of all the big scary "custom work." For someone who has done plenty of "custom work" before, things like custom exhaust plumbing, custom intake, etc doesn't scare me.

[Legacy777]

For the power goals you're looking at, you'll need to make around 350 hp at the motor. if you're looking to use E-85, you're talking about a very substantial increase in injectors, probably in the neighborhood of 800 cc/min. A walbro 255 lph pump would probably do what you need. Douglas Vincent on this board is probably one of the most knowledgable persons on the subject of making power out of E-85 and some of the issues that are involved. You may want to PM him.

To fully take advantage of the E-85's higher octane, you're going to need a late model OBD2 ECU that can be tuned, assuming you want to stay with a Subaru ECU. Cobb's pro tuner is an option, Open ECU is alright, but a tad limited. As I mentioned, a full stand alone is going to give you the best tunability. I wouldn't throw the idea out the window because with the higher flow rate demands of the E-85, you could do a staged injection and run secondary injectors to provide enough fuel under full boost. That would obviously require custom intake manifold work, but you indicated that wasn't an issue.

One additional thing to note about ECU's is inspection/registration. Most states do an OBD2 test where they plug into the vehicle and check everything out. If you decide to go stand alone or significantly modify the stock ECU programming, that may present issues with the inspection place unless you are allowed to perform an alternative test.

As for the drivetrain stuff, just run what is supposed to match the chassis. Most of the drivetrain/chassis stuff is like legos as long as you don't get too new.

[cj91legss]

yeah just stick to a 5 Speed Drive line and you'll be fine, the diffs are all pretty much the same design so you don't need to go to wrx or sti

[evolutionmovement]

As an FYI, there's also a bulletproof rwd option coming soon if that's of interest.

[tsbpenguin]

As an FYI, there's also a bulletproof rwd option coming soon if that's of interest.

I may take on another RWD project at some point, but these pictures from the car's trip home should explain why i want awd for now...

[Legacy777]

Picture no worky.