Bronze/Copper Flakes in Oil Filter=??

[LikeUCare]

All,

So I picked up a 94 Legacy SS with 220K on the clock. Seller claimed an undocumented rebuilt on engine by a local community college some 30-40K ago. I have been going through the car doing the normal routine maintence stuff but when it came to the oil change I noticed something that concerns me.

Color of the oil was dark brown and it looked pretty dirty. I drained the pan and everything was pretty routine looking. I couldn't get the oil filter to come off so I stabbed the bottom with a screwdriver and when the oil started draining down the screwdriver from the bottom of the filter I noticed bronze/copper flakes all it.

There were no chunks of metal in the filter, no chunks on the oil plug, and I went back and played with the oil that came out the pan and couldn't find any flakes. This flakes were very fine and I probably wouldn't have seem them if the light hadn't hit the oil just right.

I know that this can indicate a bearing problem but if there is damage what can I do at this point? The car runs/drives well with no knocking/ticking etc that would lead me to believe at this point that a failure is imminent.

Should I just shorten the change interval and check the filter 1-2K down the road? Drain and drop the pan?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Eric

[SiCkSTi04]

I think that stuff has alot to do with bad bearings in the engine. How does the engine sound overall?

[Rubasu]

dude its for sure your bearings. if ur not knocking u have some time. but i will tell u that they will fail soon, but good news u get to split the block!

[LikeUCare]

The engine sounds good and the car runs well. Only thing I got going on with currently is the fact it hits fuel cut (TD04 and 06 TMIC installed with no FCD) which I am sorting out today.

[LikeUCare]

If no block work is needed can you do a rod/crank bearing swap without pulling the engine?

[LikeUCare]

Nevermind, found my answer....

[Rubasu]

ya i heard u can do 1 trough3 but not 4 on ur bearings only

[LikeUCare]

Doesn't look good. I dumped the new oil into a clean pan and stuck my finger into the drain hole and fished the bottom residue out of the pan and let it settle and I have a good little collection of copper in the bottom. I also can feel two items that I am pretty sure are are washer/nuts in the bottom of the pan. Oil squirter hardware?

BTW, how do you get to the 2 screws on the oil pan that are hidden by the steering subframe/engine mount without jacking up the engine or dropping the subframe?

Anyone have a shop in the Denver area that wants to help me get this rebuild on? I don't have the time or the space to do it myself. I do home brew beer and can provide many, many cases of beer that will knock your socks off! I have cash as well so if there is a forum member out there in Colorado that wants to help me learn and has the skill/tools/facility to do this speak up!

[LikeUCare]

Okay did a compression test to see what I was looking at:

1 125PSI
2 130PSI
3 120PSI
4 130PSI

This was a dry test. From my searching this seems pretty decent for the turbo model.

This thing just doesn't sound or run like a car about to spit out a bearing....I don't understand the flakes in the oil at all.

[Rubasu]

well if u think about your rotating assembly, it could be possible that it is a main bearing and not a rod end bearing. i had a knock and i swear no one could hear it but me, well i split my block and all my bearings were going bad and i had a lot of bearing material in my pan. But the whole time it still ran great!

[Legacy777]

To get the back screws you have to remove the nuts holding the motor mounts to the subframe and then jack up the engine a few inches. You should also loose the bolts holding the pitch stop mount on the top of the motor near the firewall.

[LikeUCare]

Thanks Josh, I should have responded, I did find that in another post.

[LikeUCare]

Update, engine is pulled and I had bearings on the crank and connecting rods going out. Crank has mild wear on it and I replaced but connecting rods looked good. I replaced the rings and pistons as well with all OEM parts.

Passenger side head is jacked as well. The hardware I was feeling in the oil pan was the bolt heads for the cam retainer. The cam has a damaged lobe from bouncing around and I have multiple stripped bolt holes and hardware.

I found another head that needs to be rebuilt but the core and cam is good so I am combining the two heads into one good set.

Hopefully I should get it back in the next couple of weeks..........I can't believe she drove as nice as she did with this amount of damage......no drive train ticking, nothing......

She had blow-by on the pistons as well..,,I don't know if I should curse my ability to pick a car or tip my hat to the Subaru engineers.....there is no way a Chevy or Ford would be able to drive with the damage its got.

[Legacy777]

Yeah, that's one of the amazing things I've read from multiple people. The damage these engines can take and still run is quite impressive!

[Bheinen74]

" 220K on the clock. Seller claimed an undocumented rebuilt on engine by a local community college some 30-40K ago"

Do you think it was rebuilt 30-40k ago? Don't think so.

[evolutionmovement]

Could have been a terrible rebuild. Unless it was really abused, I'd lean more towards that as a culprit than the mileage. Then again, it could be both as it shouldn't have needed a rebuild 30-40k ago.

Mine ran really well with a melted valve as well. For miles doing 85, I only suspected something was wrong by the weird exhaust note off the guardrail. Got home after about 30 miles and though maybe just a plug wire got loose. I found out a $12 valve was all it would've needed, but I had unfortunately swapped out the engine by then.

[LikeUCare]

I am thinking that it was rebuilt, the block looks good and there are new gaskets and seals everywhere. I think it was just beat up on by someone that didn't have a clue how to drive or just didn't care. That or the rebuild was crap AND they flogged the hell out of it.

I found another head local and the shop was able to reuse the valves and springs from the original head and the cam/retainer/core from the donor so now I have a good head. They have the engine back together and are dropping it back in in the next few days.

They are also replacing the power steering hoses that runs to the rack, they were leaking like crazy, that thing is $225! I will have officially spent more on the car than I paid for it by the time I get it back.......aurgh.........