1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Hey guys and girls. It's my first post and I'm asking for advice, sorry! I have spent some time on the forum trying to figure this car out, no luck yet though! I figure before I whip out my volt meter and start checking things, I would post up and share what is going on with my Subaru.
I'm all about solutions, and something I see a lot lately is people asking questions on a forum, people getting answers, and then the people never post back with what the solution was. I'm not that guy, I'm going to post an answer once one is found.
Ok, so now that you know where I am coming from, here is the dilemma.
I picked up a clean 1991 Legacy Sport with a pretty low mileage EJ22T mated to a 5 speed tranny under the bonnet.
The engine sounds really good and starts up normally every time, but when I accelerate, it will hesitate and ends up approaching redline in a much more awkward manner than one would expect. The check engine light pops on after a battery reset within about 5 minutes of normal driving, so this is certainly not an intermittent issue. The codes that I pulled are...
14 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
15 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
16 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
17 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
22 Abnormal voltage produced in knock sensor monitor circuit
23 Abnormal voltage input entered from air flow sensor
24 Air control valve inoperative (Abnormal signal produced in monitor circuit)
32 Oxygen sensor inoperative
41 Faulty learning control function
49 Use of improper air flow sensor
In my experience with lots of sensor codes, it usually ends up being the ECU that fails. I am unfamiliar with the Subaru setup though, so I'm really hoping that it is just one or two sensors that have gone out, throwing everything else out of wack.
I think the wrong air flow sensor is in there, PO stated he changed it with one from a NA Legacy from a similar year.
In advance...Thanks for the help!
I'm all about solutions, and something I see a lot lately is people asking questions on a forum, people getting answers, and then the people never post back with what the solution was. I'm not that guy, I'm going to post an answer once one is found.
Ok, so now that you know where I am coming from, here is the dilemma.
I picked up a clean 1991 Legacy Sport with a pretty low mileage EJ22T mated to a 5 speed tranny under the bonnet.
The engine sounds really good and starts up normally every time, but when I accelerate, it will hesitate and ends up approaching redline in a much more awkward manner than one would expect. The check engine light pops on after a battery reset within about 5 minutes of normal driving, so this is certainly not an intermittent issue. The codes that I pulled are...
14 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
15 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
16 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
17 Fuel injector inoperative (Abnormal signal emitted from monitor circuit)
22 Abnormal voltage produced in knock sensor monitor circuit
23 Abnormal voltage input entered from air flow sensor
24 Air control valve inoperative (Abnormal signal produced in monitor circuit)
32 Oxygen sensor inoperative
41 Faulty learning control function
49 Use of improper air flow sensor
In my experience with lots of sensor codes, it usually ends up being the ECU that fails. I am unfamiliar with the Subaru setup though, so I'm really hoping that it is just one or two sensors that have gone out, throwing everything else out of wack.
I think the wrong air flow sensor is in there, PO stated he changed it with one from a NA Legacy from a similar year.
In advance...Thanks for the help!
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
I would start with the ignition relay. Also check your engine harness connectors behind the battery for corrosion or broken wires.
2002 Impreza 2.0RS 6MT
2001 Impreza 2.5RS 5MT (winter beater)
1992 Jeep Cherokee
1994 SS 5MT RIP
1991 SS 5MT *SOLD*
1996 Legacy Outback 5MT *SOLD*
2001 Impreza 2.5RS 5MT (winter beater)
1992 Jeep Cherokee
1994 SS 5MT RIP
1991 SS 5MT *SOLD*
1996 Legacy Outback 5MT *SOLD*
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
get a turbo maf.................
90 legacy Wagon LS Special, JDM closed deck 20g, custom 25d heads f/ metic motors, APS GC FMIC, 740cc, VF34, 4.11 F/D, Turboxs RFL blow off valve, now with piggyback.
94 Legacy SS R.I.P (parts car now for 90)
97 Legacy Outback (sold)
94 Legacy SS R.I.P (parts car now for 90)
97 Legacy Outback (sold)
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
I agree with the getting the right maf and going from there.
93 Legacy Turbo AT Sliver Stock, Ultra Rotty Body
93 Legacy Turbo MT Silver Rob Tune 550cc Lowered GT28 AWIC 4.11 05 Leg GT rims Mint body
95 Chevy Corvette MT ZR-1 Black X Brace Chipped
94 Legacy Turbo AT Blue Stock SOLD
06 Pontiac G6 AT Green Stock SOLD
93 Legacy Turbo MT Silver Rob Tune 550cc Lowered GT28 AWIC 4.11 05 Leg GT rims Mint body
95 Chevy Corvette MT ZR-1 Black X Brace Chipped
94 Legacy Turbo AT Blue Stock SOLD
06 Pontiac G6 AT Green Stock SOLD
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Good advice on the engine harness, I found a wire in the 8 pin connector that had some corrosion on it, still working with the same symptoms though.
I ran a test on the O2 sensor and concluded that its either clogged or just toast due to its output of 0.20v regardless of engine rpm/temp. I swapped the coil pack and put some newer spark plug wires on it. During that process I ended up finding a lot of rusty water in the rear left spark plug hole.
After cleaning out all of the water I found that while it approaches red line much more quickly, it still has the hesitation.
Tomorrow I will remove the O2 sensor and make sure it's not just clogged before I replace it with a new one. I will also be picking up the old air flow sensor from the PO. If I don't find a difference with those two sensors, I will test the ignition switch.
Thanks for the quick response guys.
I ran a test on the O2 sensor and concluded that its either clogged or just toast due to its output of 0.20v regardless of engine rpm/temp. I swapped the coil pack and put some newer spark plug wires on it. During that process I ended up finding a lot of rusty water in the rear left spark plug hole.
After cleaning out all of the water I found that while it approaches red line much more quickly, it still has the hesitation.
Tomorrow I will remove the O2 sensor and make sure it's not just clogged before I replace it with a new one. I will also be picking up the old air flow sensor from the PO. If I don't find a difference with those two sensors, I will test the ignition switch.
Thanks for the quick response guys.
-
- Fifth Gear
- Posts: 6322
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 am
- Location: Lakewood, Wa 98439
- Contact:
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
have you checked out your fuel pump? Your fuel pumpcould be old and cutting out when the engine is demanding more fuel.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
I was able to confirm that it has the right air flow sensor and although the old O2 sensor was dead, the new one has made no difference. I pulled spark plugs, seeing that the old ones were much too old for a standard NGK V-Power plug, they were replaced. As were the spark plug wires. Still no difference.
Today I swapped coil packs which didn't seem to change my symptom, and I also tested fuel pressure and fuel regulator which are both in good shape. I did not drive with the pressure tester connected though...I think I will try that.
I have noticed something a bit odd...I cannot seem to clear the codes, even after leaving the battery disconnected all night. I pulled the ECU thinking it may be toast and saw no visible burns or hot spots. Is ECU failure common?
When driving with D-check enabled the only code that flashes is 22, which is the knock sensor. I moved the knock sensor to a different location, as others have done with some success, but the knock sensor code still pops up when driving.
During test runs, I have found that it seems to run a bit better before its been heated up, after it gets hot, I find that the hesitation or bucking can get pretty intense. With low amounts of throttle input, it behaves prefectly normal. As soon as you start the put your foot down and load up the engine, it quickly misbehaves.
I have not yet checked the ignition switch, but I have jiggled the key during the bucking sessions and it does not make a difference. I'm currently looking for a schematic to test it.
Maybe I have a fuel filter that is still flowing, but only for lower rpm?
Today I swapped coil packs which didn't seem to change my symptom, and I also tested fuel pressure and fuel regulator which are both in good shape. I did not drive with the pressure tester connected though...I think I will try that.
I have noticed something a bit odd...I cannot seem to clear the codes, even after leaving the battery disconnected all night. I pulled the ECU thinking it may be toast and saw no visible burns or hot spots. Is ECU failure common?
When driving with D-check enabled the only code that flashes is 22, which is the knock sensor. I moved the knock sensor to a different location, as others have done with some success, but the knock sensor code still pops up when driving.
During test runs, I have found that it seems to run a bit better before its been heated up, after it gets hot, I find that the hesitation or bucking can get pretty intense. With low amounts of throttle input, it behaves prefectly normal. As soon as you start the put your foot down and load up the engine, it quickly misbehaves.
I have not yet checked the ignition switch, but I have jiggled the key during the bucking sessions and it does not make a difference. I'm currently looking for a schematic to test it.
Maybe I have a fuel filter that is still flowing, but only for lower rpm?
-
- Fifth Gear
- Posts: 6322
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 am
- Location: Lakewood, Wa 98439
- Contact:
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
That is EXACTLY what my car was doing, down to the t......Amoxin wrote:I find that the hesitation or bucking can get pretty intense. With low amounts of throttle input, it behaves prefectly normal. As soon as you start the put your foot down and load up the engine, it quickly misbehaves.
I could ease into throttle, but as soon as i punched it, it's like the fuel pump got over loaded... my car had sat for 9 -10 months, then i got it running again, and shortly after i started having this issue. finally one night it just died on me on my way home from work.
luckily some buddies of mine were nice enough to drop everything he was doing and help me out (Thanks Eric & kris) we tested the pump when he got there, and it was obvious that some sort of bearing had crapped out inside of it.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
cj91legss - fuel pressure at idle is 28psi, and under load at about 4000 rpm it is 42psi. I cannot find info anywhere on what it should be. Thanks.
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Since the knock sensor is the only code that won't clear I would suggest either replacing the knock sensor, but before doing that, I would suggest checking the resistance on the knock sensor wiring from the connector in the engine bay (going to the ECU) to the pin at the ECU.
Over time the wire gets brittle and cracks, and you lose all continuity on that wire. If this is the problem the best way to fix it is to use some microphone wire (since it's shielded) and run a new wire from the ECU to the knock sensor and solder the existing connectors to it.
If the wire checks out good, I'd suggest replacing the knock sensor, they are notorious for cracks in the plastic case, which cause it to short out. There was a design change, and the new ones have a white connector vs. the original gray connector.
The engine running issues you describe are likely in part to the car running in limp mode due to the knock sensor.
Over time the wire gets brittle and cracks, and you lose all continuity on that wire. If this is the problem the best way to fix it is to use some microphone wire (since it's shielded) and run a new wire from the ECU to the knock sensor and solder the existing connectors to it.
If the wire checks out good, I'd suggest replacing the knock sensor, they are notorious for cracks in the plastic case, which cause it to short out. There was a design change, and the new ones have a white connector vs. the original gray connector.
The engine running issues you describe are likely in part to the car running in limp mode due to the knock sensor.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
The new white connector knock sensor has gotten the car out of limp mode and has also fixed the issue where my codes would not clear. I now have no CEL and nothing pops up in the D check. It still hesitates, just not as badly. It seems to still fluctuate in severity.
I moved the location of the knock sensor to the top of the bell housing and torqued it correctly. I wonder if I should install some felt in between the KS? I have heard of some people having success with this when their subies are acting up.
Also, testing the TPS via Surrealmirage's website, I bump into an issue where my signal wire to the ecu is on the number 1 pin where it should be on the number 2 pin in the diagram. Anybody have a color code for this handy?
Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated.
I moved the location of the knock sensor to the top of the bell housing and torqued it correctly. I wonder if I should install some felt in between the KS? I have heard of some people having success with this when their subies are acting up.
Also, testing the TPS via Surrealmirage's website, I bump into an issue where my signal wire to the ecu is on the number 1 pin where it should be on the number 2 pin in the diagram. Anybody have a color code for this handy?
Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated.
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Did you "reset" the ECU after replacing the knock sensor? Clearing the codes & resetting the ECU are different. To reset the ECU, pull the EGI/TCU fuse No 14 for about an hour.
Here's the testing procedure and wiring diagram.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting2.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting3.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... g_diag.jpg
Here's the testing procedure and wiring diagram.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting2.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting3.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... g_diag.jpg
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
I did not reset it. Good idea ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
Re: 1991 Legacy Sport throwing many wacky codes
Well, I tried it and wasn't able to get anywhere. I decided to sell it and keep my eyes out for another. Thanks for all the help!