Compatibility: Old vs "New"

[colaboy]

First off, "Hi" New to the boards.

I wanted to get a clear answer to a question. First a little background.

I have a 1996 Legacy Brighton Wagon with the 5 sp transmission. It was recently written off by someone who didn't quite get that "red" means "stop" about two weeks ago.

I have replaced it with a 1993 Legacy Wagon L, full load of options as far as I can tell.

I'm a little paranoid that I've bought a car with an engine that may be on it's way out. It's much louder (nvh) than the 96, feels significantly slower on acceleration (where'd my torque go!) and generally just doesn't seem as happy to be thrashed as the Brighton did.

I've done some searching and I understand that in the event of an engine swap ( I still have the Brighton) I need to keep the exhaust because of the dual / single port head thing.

Now my question: Other than the transferring of all the accessories, A/C compressor and such to the 96 motor, how much of a pain is the wiring going to be going from OBDI to OBDII? Any chance I could just "plug it in" to the 93's harness? I'm thinking fat chance......

I understand that if you can swap in an STi drivetrain, obviously it can be done, but is it worth the hassle to keep the Brighton around "just in case" or should I just let the insurance company have it?

Thanks for any input. I promise the next topic I post will be less brain taxing......

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

On your 96, does the engine wiring harness go behind the battery in the front part of the car, or does it go towards the firewall from the back of the engine? If the wiring goes behind the battery, there's a stronger chance doing the swap should be ok.

Does your 96 have an EGR valve?

If the electrical plugs don't line up, you could possibly switch the engine electrical harnesses between the 96 & 93. The 93 ECU should be able to run the 96 without too much issue. I think the only real difference may be the cam and if it has EGR.

Another resource you may want to check out is www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum

[Alphius]

'96 Brighton would have been a 5-speed and as such will not have an EGR.

I went the other way, I put a '93 Legacy L motor into my '96 Brighton when the headgaskets blew. I just bolted my OBDII intake and sensors to the '93 block and dropped it in. (After taking car of the single vs. dual port exhaust problem)

Everything should work 100% if you go the other way and simply bolt the entire intake/wiring harness from the '93 onto the '96 block and bolt the single-port exhaust manifold to the '93's midpipe. '96 was also the last year of non-interference for the EJ22, so you'll even keep your run-it-til-it-breaks timing belt.

[colaboy]

Thanks, that jives with the general info I got from USMB. Thanks for the information guys.

Any thoughts on the relative lack of low end power? This is gonna sound stupid, but I compare it thus:

The 96 Brighton has a V8 powerband, lots of low down grunt that dies out as the revs climb, the 93 is more "twin cam" like. Dead up to 4k rpm.....then it starts to move along.

I mean both cars are slugs, but that's the best way I can describe it.

[Alphius]

I've never really driven an N/A first gen Legacy so I can't really comment on power, but the second gen ones I owned were all like you describe with the EJ22: lots of low-end torque that kinda just fades away at high RPM. The EJ25 cars I've driven however still have the low-end, but they carry it through the top a lot better.

Maybe your behavior is correct for a first gen; I have no idea.

[evolutionmovement]

The first generation is the same. They launch like a small block in a heavy car. A 2.2 1st generation would kill my 2.3 Mazda 3 up until the top of the range and I think it would just beat the Mazda to 60 (where the Mazda would then pull and keep pulling) and would kill my 2012 Focus all day (it's pretty slow, but I didn't buy it for speed).

[Legacy777]

I would agree with Steve regarding the first gen Legacy 2.2 non-turbo motors. They have plenty of low end grunt.

Is your 93 wagon MT or AT?

[colaboy]

It's a manual. Sorry for the late reply, been busy fixing little things.

Just changed the HVAC controls, now I have reliable A/C, not hit and miss. Thanks to the boards for that info. Next is to get rid of the freakin annoying squealling noise coming from my IAC valve. Again, tons of useful info on this site, my new gasket is on it's way which will hopefully remedy it.

Then we are moving on to exhaust. I may have a crack or leak in the manifold, but until I drop it out and get all the heat sheilds off it's just too hard to pinpoint.

Once that's done, I'll see if it made any difference in the lack of low end pull/ veeeeerrry slight hesitation below 3k rpm issue.

In the stab in the dark department, could it just be that my fully loaded 93 is just that much heavier than the basic 96 Brighton? That would give the feel of being slower, but I'm having trouble finding a constant curb weight for both cars. Different sources quote different weights for both cars.

[Alphius]

Slight miss below 3k and lack of torque... Are you also having low gas mileage?

Have you done (or checked) the plugs and wires? I had the same problem (but a little worse) on a '97 Brighton with 98k miles, and changed the original Subaru plugs and wires out for new NGK ones, the car drove a million times better.

I don't think the minimal weight difference is enough to make that noticeable of a difference in acceleration.

[evolutionmovement]

Even if it's heavier, you'll still feel a slug of torque, you'll just accelerate slower. I second plugs. I was replacing them every year or so until I moved to Magnecors.

[colaboy]

Did the plugs last week. NGK as recommended by this site. Guess I'll grab a new set of wires too, proper maintenance anyways.

It's funny (now, anyways) I had an old RX7 years ago and it ran like poo. I switched out everything, carb, plugs, distributor, fuel pump, filter....still ran like poo.

This went on over a year to no avail. I was pissed. Someone said "Did you change the wires?". Put on a new set, ran like a top from that day on.

I thought that because I couldn't see an arc off any of the wires in the dark, they were good. If there is one thing that taught me, it's ALWAYS start with the simple stuff.

Once those are on and I get the exhaust looked at, I'll let you know.

Continuing thanks for everyone's input.

[colaboy]

Update.

Ok, I swapped out the exhaust from the old wagon to the new one. This eliminated the rear cat and the restrictive OEM muffler. Now it's has a catless midpipe with a 2 1/2 inch stainless axleback.

Also I threw on new plug wires and cleaned out the throttle body with carb cleaner.

It now runs hugely better.

My guess is the second cat was probably plugged, it looked original so that's pretty likely. As an added bonus it sounds better too. I may consider replacing the manifold with a header down the road as the Y pipe cat is probably not in the best of shape either.

On the downside, I replaced the gasket on the IAC valve and it made no difference. Still squeals like a bugger at light throttle, basically whenever your coasting.

The gasket looked the same thickness as the old one, so I wasn't hugely optimistic it was going to work anyways. The dealer said there was no way to get the older, thinner style gasket anymore.

I'm hesitant to clean it with carb cleaner, (it was pretty carboned up) as my car idles fine and I've read about people having mixed results.

I going to try and use this ultra high temp gasket maker stuff and just pull the composite gasket right out and see if that helps.

[colaboy]

I swear to God I'm gonna burn this thing......

Sorry for the thread jumping around.

Apparently my changing of the HVAC controls was not the fix I was looking for. A/C still randomly works/shuts off/ won't come on in the first place. What are the chances of two control panels having just the A/C and Max A/C buttons be buggered? All the other controls worked fine.

When it does work, it WORKS. Ice cold. But it just randomly shuts off and won't come on again for a period of time. Each period of not working is different in terms of time. It's frustrating as hell.

I found a thread that talked about the expansion valve being kaput. This would let the system over pressurize and the compressor would (I assume) kick off via the high pressure switch. The problem is that I sat in gridlock traffic today for almost half an hour with the A/C on, no problem. Even cycling on and off surely would have caused enough pressure to shut down the compressor with 30 mins of consistent running.

I guess ultimately Iv'e got to just suck it up and take it to someone who knows A/C and has the proper tools, because right now I'm just guessing and grasping at straws.

My old Legacy ran like a top from day one, this thing is one issue after another. Grrrrr.

[Legacy777]

You need to get a set of AC gauges on the system to see what the pressures are doing. I would suspect you may have an issue with the expansion valve, or the system may be improperly charged.