N/A Motor Swap Questions

[GTwagon]

ok i know this is going to be weird to ask but nothings in the engine sticky's and didnt find n e thing in search.
seems like all the info is for swapping to a turbo motor, not what i want.
but i need to know if can get a 90-94 2.2 N/A motor w/computer and put it in the 2.2T?
can i reuse the harness and leave the plugs for the turbo stuff off?
or will this cause problems?
i am asking this is cause i dont want more power, i want more gas mileage.
right now it cost me 40 bucks to fill up on 91oct and i only get like 200ish per tank, which is horrible cause my wrx with a vf39 gets better mileage and has MORE power.
if i can get 300 miles a tank that would be awesome but im not going to hold my breath on it.
right now i can get a ej22 n/a motor w/computer from pick and pull for under 350 and there is no way im taking the harness cuz it's ALWAYS cut some where .
so if anyone has done what i want to do please share with the rest of us.
thanks and have a Great Day everyone.
GTwagon

[evolutionmovement]

Yes, and just a couple wires need to be swapped at the ECU, but you'll have to figure something for the exhaust. Either get an N/A crossmember, jury rig something where the right side header pipe goes under the turbo crossmember, cut the turbo crossmember (which would ruin it and you could probably sell it and more than make back an N/A one), or use the turbo exhaust with a spacer pipe and custom downtube where the turbo was and rejoining the back exhaust.

In the end, I'm not sure you're really going to be all that impressed with the mileage, though. If you drive a lot, it might be worth it after a while, I don't know. I got between 25 and 27 mpg, but I'm also fwd with a taller FD (3.7), driving slower, I probably could've gotten a little better, but I doubt I could've cracked 30 without drafting trucks over the whole tank. Other people haven't even gotten that much from the N/A's. BUT, if you do just swap crossmembers, it is a pretty easy job.

[kimokalihi]

I would just buy another car. You can find a good one anywhere from $800-$1,200 and save yourself a ton of work.

[GTwagon]

Yes, and just a couple wires need to be swapped at the ECU, but you'll have to figure something for the exhaust. Either get an N/A crossmember, jury rig something where the right side header pipe goes under the turbo crossmember, cut the turbo crossmember (which would ruin it and you could probably sell it and more than make back an N/A one), or use the turbo exhaust with a spacer pipe and custom downtube where the turbo was and rejoining the back exhaust.

In the end, I'm not sure you're really going to be all that impressed with the mileage, though. If you drive a lot, it might be worth it after a while, I don't know. I got between 25 and 27 mpg, but I'm also fwd with a taller FD (3.7), driving slower, I probably could've gotten a little better, but I doubt I could've cracked 30 without drafting trucks over the whole tank. Other people haven't even gotten that much from the N/A's. BUT, if you do just swap crossmembers, it is a pretty easy job.

yeah sorry im going to take the exhaust also or at less the manifold and redo the exhaust.
also guess im taking the crossmember, i forgot about the crossmember.
thanks for reminding me. save's me a trip to pick and pull. again lol.
25-27 mpg is good enough for me and it'll cost me less to fill up since it's only 87.
i am in cali so gas price is above 4 dollar's atm for 91. so it'll help in the long run.
thanks for the info, i'll be looking for wire pinouts for the ecu.

[GTwagon]

I would just buy another car. You can find a good one anywhere from $800-$1,200 and save yourself a ton of work.

i wish i can find a good one for 800-1200 where im from.
im in silicon valley,ca and for some reason the car's hold their value even with a blown motor or trans.
the motor im trying to find for the wagon i got for $800 but it had a blown trans.
so finding a subaru in running condition for that price is almost near impossible here.
for that price i'll be doing work to it so i might as well just get a N/A motor and Shove it in there and call it a day.
also with buying another car. that's another expense with insurance and registration.
also the other reason is so when i do swap the N/A motor in im going to replace everything so it's like new for my dad.
that and the shortblock is going into my Bugeye.

[Legacy777]

You can reuse the turbo engine harness on the non-turbo motor. You will have to extend the coolant temp sensor wiring since it is located on the passenger side of the non-turbo motor. You will need to swap the positive pins for the crank & cam sensors also.

Another potential issue will be the radiator. The turbo radiator does not have a cap or filler neck and the non-turbo engine does not have a spot for the coolant tank to go. The turbo radiator is taller, so if you run a non-turbo radiator you will need spacers to take up the extra clearance and you will need fans from the non-turbo car as well.

I too would suggest maybe looking for something else. You are not going to get substantially better mileage. You'll probably get better, but even when I was MT running a turbo legacy trans with the non-turbo motor, I wouldn't say my mileage was better than 23-25 in the city. If you drive the turbo car right and stay out of boost, you can probably get the close to the same mileage.

Ultimately, it's up to you, but the cost vs. time and money you'll put in to swapping the non-turbo motor and working out the bugs isn't worth it IMO.

[kimokalihi]

Definitely don't do it. I didn't even think about that. If your engine is in good shape you should be getting 25mpg. Just stay out of boost like Josh says. You will get minimal improvement on an NA motor. It's a heavy car. I got 27 in my NA wagon. 5mpg+ at best and that would not be worth all the work and money you'll be dumping into it.

[GTwagon]

You can reuse the turbo engine harness on the non-turbo motor. You will have to extend the coolant temp sensor wiring since it is located on the passenger side of the non-turbo motor. You will need to swap the positive pins for the crank & cam sensors also.

Another potential issue will be the radiator. The turbo radiator does not have a cap or filler neck and the non-turbo engine does not have a spot for the coolant tank to go. The turbo radiator is taller, so if you run a non-turbo radiator you will need spacers to take up the extra clearance and you will need fans from the non-turbo car as well.

I too would suggest maybe looking for something else. You are not going to get substantially better mileage. You'll probably get better, but even when I was MT running a turbo legacy trans with the non-turbo motor, I wouldn't say my mileage was better than 23-25 in the city. If you drive the turbo car right and stay out of boost, you can probably get the close to the same mileage.

Ultimately, it's up to you, but the cost vs. time and money you'll put in to swapping the non-turbo motor and working out the bugs isn't worth it IMO.

damn it, not what i want to hear but thanks for the honest info.
im pretty set on swapping to N/A just due to the fact i want the short block in my WRX.
but it seems like i will have a easier swap if i find me a wrecked donor it looks like.
also about the gas mileage, how long do the front o2 sensor last?
the vehicle has 160xxx miles on it atm and am not sure if the o2 sensor has been replaced.
i have no check engine light on but i know it uses the front o2 for a/f mixtures and old one's do take longer to react/transmit signal.
i've searched google and found them for like $6x.xx. is that right?
so anyone know a place to get one for fairly inexpensive?
thanks
GTwagon

[evolutionmovement]

160k is more than fair for an O2 to go. I don't remember when mine went, I think it was later, but that's not really relevant. Oxygensensors.com is a great place, but any generic with the same wire count will be an easy swap. They're old, so they're cheaper narrowband, but ~$60 is what that will be (widebands can be over $300 depending where you get them). Being OBDI, you most likely won't get a CEL for it (I've never seen one for it). If you replace the O2 and it helps your mileage, you might not feel the need to do the swap. If it doesn't, it should work fine with the N/A engine, too.

[GTwagon]

160k is more than fair for an O2 to go. I don't remember when mine went, I think it was later, but that's not really relevant. Oxygensensors.com is a great place, but any generic with the same wire count will be an easy swap. They're old, so they're cheaper narrowband, but ~$60 is what that will be (widebands can be over $300 depending where you get them). Being OBDI, you most likely won't get a CEL for it (I've never seen one for it). If you replace the O2 and it helps your mileage, you might not feel the need to do the swap. If it doesn't, it should work fine with the N/A engine, too.

thats what i was thinking on the o2 sensor, it would have to be reading really slow or stops reading period to set off a check engine light.
there are codes for the o2 sensor so even in obd1 it will set it off but what the conditions are i dont know.
i guess i'll replace the o2 sensor for now and hope that helps with the milage.
but this wagon will be getting a N/A motor for sure.
when tho? that im not sure.
i am fond of driving this thing in its state of condition.
it's not super fast or n e thing but it's peppy enough to where it's fun to drive even tho it's a wagon.
all i have to say is WOW.
i never thought i'd be owning a wagon .
i think deep down this car is more for me then my dad but i just say that its for my dad lol.
well thanks for all the input.
also is there a member's car forum somewhere?
would love to post some pics up of it.

[Legacy777]

These ECU's are pretty lame compared to the newer ones, and typically won't throw a code for an O2 sensor.

Also I'd maybe suggest replacing the coolant temp sensor. They control A/F ratio, and if you have one that is not really reading correctly, it could be causing the A/F ratios to be richer than they need to be. They're only like $20 from the online Subaru dealers. They too tend to get sluggish and weird as they age, and don't throw CEL's.

[GTwagon]

These ECU's are pretty lame compared to the newer ones, and typically won't throw a code for an O2 sensor.

Also I'd maybe suggest replacing the coolant temp sensor. They control A/F ratio, and if you have one that is not really reading correctly, it could be causing the A/F ratios to be richer than they need to be. They're only like $20 from the online Subaru dealers. They too tend to get sluggish and weird as they age, and don't throw CEL's.

sweet thanks for the tip, i'll have to replace it then cuz im not sure if the previous owner did or not.
and lastly whats the logic behind using the temp sensor for A/F?
only thing i can see is it's looking for open/closed loop?

[evolutionmovement]

Cold start up.

[GTwagon]

Cold start up.

ah ok i get you now.
if its slow to respond it could be telling it to stay in open loop til it gets the proper signal i take it.

[Alphius]

Colder engine requires more fuel to start and run, therefore if the coolant temp sensor is bad and reading very cold, the car will run pig rich. It also can keep it in open loop, you are correct.

What mileage issue? My Turbo Sedan gets 20-21 in town if I beat on it, 25 in town if I drive nice, and easily 29 cruising on the highway at 70. I track every tank on an Excel spreadsheet.

[GTwagon]

Colder engine requires more fuel to start and run, therefore if the coolant temp sensor is bad and reading very cold, the car will run pig rich. It also can keep it in open loop, you are correct.

What mileage issue? My Turbo Sedan gets 20-21 in town if I beat on it, 25 in town if I drive nice, and easily 29 cruising on the highway at 70. I track every tank on an Excel spreadsheet.

man there is something really wrong with my leggy then.
right now im only getting like 16.66 mpg.
i get about 200 per tank and thats driving it like a grandma.
150ish if im driving in boost once in awhile.
(thats why i want to replace it with a N/A)
think i'll have to replace the coolant temp sensor and o2 sensor and see how it goes.
i've replaced the spark plugs,wires,and air filter already.
thanks for the tip.
i'll update when the parts are in and replaced.

[SILINC3R]

have you ever pushed to see how far your tank will go before you run out? gauge could be wrong. i messed with mine in my N/A long time ago and it reads wrong but i can get 400-450 and around 32 mpg on highway.

[Alphius]

man there is something really wrong with my leggy then.
right now im only getting like 16.66 mpg.
i get about 200 per tank and thats driving it like a grandma.
150ish if im driving in boost once in awhile.
(thats why i want to replace it with a N/A)
think i'll have to replace the coolant temp sensor and o2 sensor and see how it goes.
i've replaced the spark plugs,wires,and air filter already.
thanks for the tip.
i'll update when the parts are in and replaced.

Sounds like an O2 and coolant sensor might help.

Are you calculating your MPG based on how far you drive and how many gallons it takes to fill up, or are you guessing from your fuel gauge?

[GTwagon]

man there is something really wrong with my leggy then.
right now im only getting like 16.66 mpg.
i get about 200 per tank and thats driving it like a grandma.
150ish if im driving in boost once in awhile.
(thats why i want to replace it with a N/A)
think i'll have to replace the coolant temp sensor and o2 sensor and see how it goes.
i've replaced the spark plugs,wires,and air filter already.
thanks for the tip.
i'll update when the parts are in and replaced.

Sounds like an O2 and coolant sensor might help.

Are you calculating your MPG based on how far you drive and how many gallons it takes to fill up, or are you guessing from your fuel gauge?

im taking the miledge i get from a full tank using the trip meter. ( i guess thats whats its called)
i reset the trip meter every tank just to see what my mpg is.
also how many gallons is in a 94 leggy wagon fuel tank?
im guessing around 12-13 tops.
thanks for the inputs.


not sure if this is what u r asking.

[SILINC3R]

I start the trip at a full tank and then drive till I think I might run out and then fill it all the way up and divide the gallons filled up with the distance traveled.all tanks hold 16 gallons.

[kimokalihi]

It's actually 15.9 gallons lol. I ran completely out a while back and it only took 12.5 gallons to fill it which pisses me off since that means there's over 3 gallons sitting in there for no reason.

[GTwagon]

have you ever pushed to see how far your tank will go before you run out? gauge could be wrong. i messed with mine in my N/A long time ago and it reads wrong but i can get 400-450 and around 32 mpg on highway.

sorry didnt see this post.
but no i dont dare to push it cuz i dont want to walk to get gas .
is there a low gas warning light on my 94 leggy wagon?

[GTwagon]

It's actually 15.9 gallons lol. I ran completely out a while back and it only took 12.5 gallons to fill it which pisses me off since that means there's over 3 gallons sitting in there for no reason.

wow really its' almost 16 gallon?
damn thats a big tank.
why would 3 gallons be untouched?
that dont make good sense or design.

[Baddog]

I am able to get around 30mpg with the cruise control on. 20-24 in the city. Unless I am constantly on it. Then it drops. I also have 4.11's on the 4EAT.

For what they are...They get good gas mileage.

[Legacy777]

sorry didnt see this post.
but no i dont dare to push it cuz i dont want to walk to get gas .
is there a low gas warning light on my 94 leggy wagon?

Yes there is a low gas warning light. It comes on when there is approximately 2.4 gallons left in the tank. The light will come on and off initially when it starts to get low, and then stay on when it's really low. That's about when you have aproximately 2.4 gallons left. I've run mine pretty close to empty, and light it pretty accurate.

Here's info on how to test whether the low fuel light works. The connector is under the passenger side of the rear seat. It's under a little black cover, so you'll have to look a little bit for it.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... t_test.jpg

Get a portable fuel container, fill it up when you get low and then drive until you run out of gas. You've got the portable one there to put back in the main tank so you can get to a service station. I think you'll find that you can run further then your gauge is telling you, especially if you've never seen the low fuel light come on.