Does anyone have a California Emissions turbo Legacy, or...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:41 am

Fair enough. I guess I misspoke. I didn't mean that this whole concern is nothing; just that your worry about the ECU in particular is unnecessary. The ECUs don't differ, so there's no way for them to know the difference, even theoretically, between a federal and a California ECU.

You may, though, want to make sure the grounding of the jurisdiction ID pin looks factory. Either camouflage your added wire, or jumper it to ground inside the ECU's case.

... or is that not an issue, since engine swaps almost always involve custom wiring anyway?

Oh wait. Are you putting this into a California car? If you are, then the car should already have that pin grounded through the harness.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:46 am

vrg3: "putting this into a California car? If you are, then the car should already have that pin grounded through the harness."

As homer simpson would say "DOHH"

You must be right, how else would it be ground except through the harness. Ill check out how this ground is connected, after all I have 5+ legacy available to me so at least one will be a California model!

Legacy777: I havn't used one on a subaru at all, it was always multi brand models on other random vehicles, sometimes with a brand specific cartridge and others with adapter cables.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:55 am

Heheheee....

Yes, it is grounded through the harness. The wire should be green with a black stripe.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:56 am

Look at the BAR page they say

"A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49-state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California. "

That just states engine....says nothing about the Electronics.....like mentioned if the wiring is in place on the cali based cars....it's the car that makes the ECU/engine cali based, rather then the ECU/engine itself.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:56 am

Is your car CA spec? If so where does the ground terminate?

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:57 am

you asking me?

Mine isn't cali based.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:04 am

You replied while I was typing, it was meant for vrg3

From the discussion so far it seems that:

All engines and attached parts are identicle so determining the year is only possible from the ECU through an OBD connection (yes I realize that 91's had the oil cooler but thats not important for this discussion).

The year is internal to the ECU so getting around this would require another ECU.

The Federal/Cali smog spec is determined by the wire harness. The only change needed to switch back and forth is the grounding of pin 11 of connector B56

Can we find ANY other way to determine the year or smog spec of the engine? If not I think we have solved this part of the puzzle!

Now we have another goal, a new thread should be created but: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 4&start=44

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:08 am

engine serial or car's vin would probably tell.....but that's about the only other ways I can think of.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 am

True, except that it seems a VIN is not needed during swap if you purchase the engine from a recycler supposedly.

Where is the engine serial located exactly?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:20 am

My car isn't CA-spec (not sure if you were talking to me or Josh)...

But I'm looking at the factory wiring diagram... The green-with-black-stripe wire goes from the ECU's jurisdiction ID pin to one of the super multiple junctions, and from there to the 12-pin rectangular connector behind the battery that connects to the engine.

Oh.

Huh.

Then on California cars the harness mounted to the engine itself (on the intake manifold) grounds that wire. There's a wire going from pin 7 of that connector (on the engine side) to an engine ground.

So I guess I was partly wrong. The harness does indeed determine jurisdiction, but the portion of the harness responsible for it is the part that's typically included with an engine assembly.

You're probably going to be swapping the harness from your car's intake manifold onto the intake manifold of the EJ22T, right? And then adding a few extra wires? If you do that it'll still automatically handle the jurisdiction issue.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:23 am

Ack! So many posts while I was typing my one post!

But, to put the whole thing succinctly: the jurisdiction is determined by the portion of the wiring harness mounted to the car's intake manifold.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:25 am

So ALL cars have the green wire on the jurisdiction pin which then travels all the way to the engine bay? Then on Federal cars the engine wire harness has no connection while on CA cars its grounded? Rock.

I was plannig to drop the EJ22t Engine completly intact, then making modification to either harness as needed. Ill have to keep a look out for pin 7, but of which connector?

My NA engine will be removed as one big chunk. Ill then take it away and rebuild it to be inserted to another of my legacy

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:30 am

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... r_Loc1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... r_Loc2.jpg

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:33 am

ciper wrote:So ALL cars have the green wire on the jurisdiction pin which then travels all the way to the engine bay? Then on Federal cars the engine wire harness has no connection while on CA cars its grounded?

I can only verify that the 1992 and 1993 service manuals say that, but I expect it's true for all BC/BFs. Josh could verify it for 1990s, and if he does then it's pretty safe to say it applies to all of them.

Rock.

Indeed.

I was plannig to drop the EJ22t Engine completly intact, then making modification to either harness as needed. Ill have to keep a look out for pin 7, but of which connector?

Woah!

No, don't do that. You'll have to change a lot of the harness. The pinouts of those underhood connectors are significantly different on turbos.

Search for mTk's thread on wiring his swap. He killed an ECU by trying to do what you describe. It turned out the simplest thing to do was to pull the harness off his original engine's intake manifold and install it on the turbo engine.

My NA engine will be removed as one big chunk. Ill then take it away and rebuild it to be inserted to another of my legacy :wink:

Oh. Well, then go to your local u-pull-it and pull the harness off another non-turbo Legacy's intake manifold. If it's CA-spec, all the better.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:35 am

Hehe... "bar cord." Silly Japanese-to-English translators.

So there is a bar code label on the door jamb of CA-spec Legacies that does not exist on Federal/Canada Legacies.

Now we know 2 differences.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:37 am

I can only verify that the 1992 and 1993 service manuals say that, but I expect it's true for all BC/BFs. Josh could verify it for 1990s, and if he does then it's pretty safe to say it applies to all of them.

The 92 manuals are the base manuals & the 93 & 94's are supplements to the 92.

I'll check the 90 fsm when I get a chance

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:56 am

Right... I checked the 1992 manual and the 1993 supplement.

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Does anyone have a California Emissions turbo Legacy, or...