550 Yellowtop install FAILED! Helps!

[Tommio RS]

As the title says installing 550 to my car failed....

I have a KILLER fuel leak!

The O-Rings looked good i thought but maybe im wrong...

Here is the setup:

Set of NA rails from some year i dont know.

The injectors are nice and snug inside the rails. Like perfect fit!

Everything looks minty perfect! Then you turn the key and it gushes fuel from what looks like the top of the injector.

I dunno if the rails are different or the injectors are different.

Still dunno about the injectors ether. They are yellowtops soo 550cc but they gots little brown nozels at the bottem? I have NEVER seen this type in my history of subaru moding?

Im going to upload a picture as soooon as i can.

[kimokalihi]

Pictures help and I believe you need 92-94 rails. I have some ill sell you with the fpr if that turns out to be your problem.

[nosyt]

you running sohc or dohc heads?
if your injectors have the smooth grey caps on the top then you need to remove the rubber out of the fuel rail cap
if your injectors dont have the grey caps then make sure you have the rubber in the fuel rail caps

[Legacy777]

You have to have the 92-94 fuel rails to use the 550 yellow tops.

Here are pictures of the 550 yellow top injectors
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... injectors/

Interestingly enough I looked at the part # from one the pictures during my install, and the right hand side part # does not appear to be a US part #, unless something's off....so not sure what I've got, but they work.


When you put the caps on, did they go on easily, or did you have to force them. Also the gray plastic caps on the yellow 550's had to be removed.

[Tommio RS]

I think i should win the dumb @$$ of the year award!

I forgot the upper injector o ring!!


Tho now im confused what injectors do i have?? I ran across a 04-05 Forester injector! Witch is a 550 or close to it.

Here is a compare in my rail aswell as the rails im using with part numbers

Rail numbers


The injector with the little brownish noozle i thinks a JDM sti injector from the 90's i think it flows 440cc.
The injector with the silver noozle is from USDM forester turbo witch i know is a 550cc


And yes these rails fit perfect on my 2.2T manifold! Whoot!
I need 550cc can anyone give me a straight answer on my injector Q's

Tom

[MikeyMeyagi]

those are 550 injectors, all 2.5 turbo yellow injectors are called 550cc, altho they are closer to 520cc
you are missing the top o rings.

[kimokalihi]

They call them 550s but rob said they're actualy 525s and people are calling them the wrong thing and I had mine cleaned and flow tested mine and they all tested 525cc.

[Legacy777]

It really depends on the injector I think. Mine averaged out to 547 cc/min after cleaning & balancing.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... _calib.pdf

[Tommio RS]

So hold the phone here. My new question is that the middle picture i installed a different yellow top injector into the rail

If you look at them they have different noozles. Left brown - Right silver. I have been reading about the inter web that there are different yellow tops out there. I think the brown tipped yellow tops are 444-480 NOT 550

To review.

Yellow top with brown tips 440-480? Or are they just 550?

I was told by the seller they were 440's tho i dunno anymore!

Help!

I need to know for sure what cc they are for tuning reasons. I can simply scale the entire full map to said 550cc or anything i like. So i dont want to scale the map to 550 when really the injectors are 440-480s

Know what im saying?

[Tommio RS]

More interesting info! I never knew of!!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sis.html?_ite ... 0INJECTORS

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/general-techni ... 440cc.html

There is Phase 1 and Phase 2 version of these injectors

Phase 1 Yellow top but with massive long metal tips

Phase 2 Same yellow top but with small plastic tip like mine i have.

From what info i have giving here im safe to say that i have a set of JDM Phase 2 Yellow top 440cc fuel injectors.

Good thing i never tuned for them! I was going to scale to 550cc!

[Legacy777]

Yes there are different yellow top injectors. Only the US yellow tops are 550's.

[mike-tracy]

This is a point of confusion when referring to the flow rate of these injectors.

Other countries measure the amount of flow at different pressures than we do here.

For example, in the US, fuel injectors are measured for flow at 3.0 Bar (43.5 PSI)
So using our measuring standard, the ej20g gray tops measure out to ~440cc, ej20k yellowtops measure out to roughly 480cc.

In other countries the injectors are measured at 2.55 BAR (37 PSI)!

Same injectors, different results at different pressures.
You just got to look at people's flow test charts to see what I mean.

[Tommio RS]

I never though that other countrys used different pressures during testing! Thats a great point right thar mike-tracy.

Well i got my answer out of this conversation. Thank you BBS!

[ciper]

I was going to post what mike-tracy said. He is right

[Tommio RS]

Update! 550cc yellow tops NOT a fail. Car runs minty once they are scaled to the fic correctly.

Note: When you are using the AEM FIC and you do swap your injectors the built in "scale for new injectors" function SUCKS!!!

It will make the correct %scale to your new injector tho it will not run. Dumb Aaa!

Math lesson now!

Lets say you have new 550cc like me
The stockers are like 360cc or something like that.

So 550/360=1.527
So that like 53% larger.

On the FIC if you scale the map to -53% your car will NOT start. Dont ask me why it just dont!

So what i did to make the car run was a simple way of tuning. I set the fuel map to do nothing! So 0.

From there i just bumped the fuel into the Neg until it just stopped emitting white smoke at idle.

So now i can gimp her to a tuner for final tuning!

Whoot AEM for such an easy product!

[Legacy777]

I don't think the injectors will flow 53% more across the entire range of the injector flow rate....so the -53% at the lower duty cycle may not be allowing enough fuel to get to the engine.

What did your fuel map look like? I'm guessing there's less scaling at the lower rpm vs. the higher rpm.

[Tommio RS]

I don't think the injectors will flow 53% more across the entire range of the injector flow rate....so the -53% at the lower duty cycle may not be allowing enough fuel to get to the engine.

What did your fuel map look like? I'm guessing there's less scaling at the lower rpm vs. the higher rpm.

I know what your asking Legacy777 but... Im going to try to explain this the best that i can via aem's owners manual.


Fuel can be added or removed from the engine based on engine speed and manifold
pressure. With a value of 12% in any of the cells, the F/IC will hold the injector open for
12% longer than the factory fuel pulse. With a value of -18% in any of the cells, the F/IC
will hold the injector open for 18% less time than the factory fuel pulse. A value of 0 will
not alter the fuel pulse length from the factory ECU

So in that blurb of aem goodness, if you are running higher cc injectors they have to be scales (NEG) for every rpm that the car would normally see. Under boost and vacuum. I have mine i think set to -16 to -12 i think. Thats all with in the Fuel map table

The fuel map table i have it set up as follows.

X: RPM 0-7000
Y: PSIA dont remember units of measure....

Interestingly enough the car can idle from any where 5 to -25 scaling. Ultra richness at 5 and mega lean at -25.

I hope i can remember to take some pics of the fuel map for ya guys....

[Tommio RS]

Now is that doesn't look to hard A.

[Legacy777]

I believe I understand how the AEM works. I guess a question for you in regards to the scaling map above is, can you alter the range of load on the y axis?

Or I guess before that, have you calibrated the MAP sensor in the AEM? In that load map, where do you typically see the y axis when idling?

[Tommio RS]

As for alter the range of load on the y axis Im not sure as of right now. i have not played with it in a while

As for calibration of the Map sensor in the AEM. There is not calibration to my knowledge. The built in AEM map is there to calculate load on the engine for its own referance. it does not in any way use the factory map sensor jazz.

Although i have tapped into the stock map to mask off boost and stuffs. Tho i have not played with that setting yet.

[Legacy777]

Is this manual for your FIC? Does the model number match the one listed on the manual?

http://tunertools.com/prodimages/AEM/ma ... 10_FIC.pdf

According to the manual, you can adjust the axis range.

I think you just need to get it tuned. The injectors do not flow linearly, so you can't pull the same amount of fuel out across the entire load range. You'll likely need to pull more fuel out at low engine rpms and load.

Are you familar with pressure readings in absolute pressure? The AEM manual actually has a pretty good blurb about it.