Clutch Bleeding

[georryan]

I'll be sure to measure it when I get it apart Josh.

In the mean time, I went to work on my 4runner and change the clutch in that thing and spent way too much time on it. I got it all apart and back together again, went shifting through the gears and went to put the clutch in and heard a "ping". Then I couldn't put it in gear. I'm 99% sure the clip on the throw out bearing came off the clutch fork.

I'm just going to have a mechanic pull it apart this time. I don't have much desire to work on that thing right now. I'd take pulling the subaru tranny over my toyota one any day. I may not have had to pull the axles off, but it sure has some annoyingly hidden bolts that make the whole process a lot less friendly.

In the mean time I've preloaded my master cylinder slightly to make the clutch actually engage. Seems to be acting fine. The engagement is way up near the top of the clutch travel, but at least I have some wheels for a couple days till my 4runner gets fixed. I just need to keep driving to a minimum until I can get a better look at it.

[Legacy777]

I did some looking last night and really didn't see any difference in the clutch lever ratio. So I'm kind of at a loss why the tranquil sleeve didn't work on my trans. The only other thing I could see is if the pressure plate is different or possibly something is different in the clutch pedal ratio. But even then I didn't see anything noted in the FSM.

So who knows...

[vrg3]

What were the issues you were having with the sleeve? From your photos it looks like it'd work fine. Dumb question, though -- you were using the throwout bearing that came in the sleeve kit, right?

[Legacy777]

The problem I had was that there was not enough travel on the transmission snout. I could only depress the clutch pedal about 3/4 of the way. The throwout bearing was hitting the collared portion of the sleeve.

What I don't know was whether the travel of the throw out bearing on the sleeve allowed for full disengagement of the clutch. Assuming it did, the problem could have been with different size clutch master or slave cylinders. I don't recall what the slave cylinder was from. If it was a smaller dia bore piston compared to stock, it would have moved further with the same amount of input from the clutch master cylinder.

Yes I was using the throwout bearing from the kit. The stock throwout bearing won't fit over the sleeve.

[vrg3]

Josh - Huh, odd. That collar is, like, 4 millimeters long. That hardly seems like it should make up 1/4 of the pedal travel. Weird.

Just as a data point, I used a WRX slave cylinder with a stock master cylinder and fork for quite a while, albeit without a snout sleeve, and it worked perfectly fine. The WRX slave cylinder bore is 13/16", and stock is 3/4", which translates into 7.7% less travel (and 7.7% less pedal effort, and a 7.7% longer theoretical pedal stroke).

Ryan - Any news? Last weekend I popped my engine out to investigate a noise I was getting from the bellhousing and it took me about 3 hours from start to finish, including a drive (in the roommate's car) to the parts store to pick up a new pilot bearing. I pulled the radiator, stuck a jack under the transmission, and used an engine crane to pull the engine forwards while leaving almost everything connected..

[georryan]

Sorry for being quiet. No, I haven't gotten to my car yet. My truck is in the shop and I'm waiting to get it back. I should get it back tomorrow I'm guessing, though. So hopefully I can pull apart the engine and tranny this weekend.

Do you still want my tranny measurements Josh?

[Legacy777]

If you get an opportunity to take them, it would be good to have them, but if not, don't sweat it.

[georryan]

Any chance my clutch could be installed backwards? I'm stretching here I think, but is that even possible to do? I read some posts and people have thought they did that, but it turned out they installed it correctly. Just a passing thought.

[kimokalihi]

I don't think that's possible. I believe they design it to only fit one way and if you put it on backwards it sticks out too far towards the trans and then you couldn't bolt the pressure plate on.

[vrg3]

Yes, that's correct -- the clutch disc has a sticky-outy part in the middle that has to fit inside the pressure plate, and if you put it on backwards, the sticky-outy bit keeps the disc from touching the flywheel, and won't allow the pressure plate to be bolted on.

[georryan]

Going to get to this real soon. Life kind of got in the way of getting around to this. It's annoying, but that's life.

[georryan]

Ok, so I pulled it apart, and it looked pretty good. I asked a neighbor mechanic about the distance that the throw-out bearing could pull out of the pressure plate before the snap ring it was attached to grabbed, and he felt it was normal.

It didn't look like the snout was all that groved up, but we did notice the pressure plate bolts were finger tight. Our best guess is that the pressure plate may have had some play in it?

Josh I did measure the snout. From the lip to the edge it was 1 and 13/16". I was using a tape measure because I don't have a micrometer but hopefully that helps.

-Ryan

[vrg3]

Woah. By "finger tight" do you mean you were able to loosen them with your fingers too? Isn't the tension in those mounting bolts supposed to preload the pressure plate? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the cause of your problems. If you don't find anything else wrong it's probably a good bet to reassemble it (with a calibrated torque wrench and blue Loctite!) and give it another go.

[Legacy777]

Josh I did measure the snout. From the lip to the edge it was 1 and 13/16". I was using a tape measure because I don't have a micrometer but hopefully that helps.

-Ryan

Thanks Ryan, I appreciate you getting the measurement.

[georryan]

vrg3 - Yeah, they were basically finger tight. A couple wouldn't turn with just finger strength, but required no effort with a tiny ratchet to turn just enough to make them loose enough to use your fingers. I can't imagine that I didn't torque those down, but I don't think I used blue locktight last time. So I'll definitely be doing that this time.

Legacy777 - No problem. Does that answer your theories on why the snout repair kit wouldn't work on your tranny? I will be putting it in my car, but I haven't put it on yet because I want to clean up the parts some before installing it. I hope it fits in there ok. I'll probably get this thing done this week (this weekend at the latest) because I need to get my car smogged. After that gets done I just need to send the Australian ecu to Rob and install the sti injectors, ecu, and maf sensor.

[Legacy777]

When I take out my 5spd to put in the 6spd I'll check the measurement against yours. I'm not sure if I can say for sure what the cause was right now, but I'm guessing it has something to do with me using a WRX clutch/pp with a legacy clutch MC & slave cylinder. But again, that's just a theory....

Let us know if you have any issues putting the sleeve on.

[georryan]

Well, I've driven my car around for a couple days now. I was worried the snout repair kit wouldn't work, but after talking to Josh about it, and then doing some of my own tests, I was able to see that although pedal doesn't go all the way to the floor, it comes really close. Also, with the car in gear, all the tires off the ground, I was able to turn the crank and see if the wheels would stop spinning with the clutch in. They did.

So I took the chance that it would work. Lucky for me it did. Aside from putting in the snout repair kit, I also made sure the pressure plate was torqued and each bolt had blue lock tight applied to them. I also replaced the pilot bearing. The clutch now is very consistent and has a good strong feel to it. Everything seems to slide smoothly, maybe more smooth than without it, but I really wasn't having shuddering issues before, either, so I'm not sure how much of a difference there has been.

I went out and smogged the car this morning and the it passed with flying colors. Granted, I had the stock exhaust on it, which I tend to put on to smog the car these days since most smog stations take one look at my massive 3" pipe, high flow cat, and the downpipe that says "CES racing systems" on it and start to "hum and haw" about how they don't think that is a smog legal part. They never say a word about my intercooler, but it looks bone stock under the hood right now. Either way, now I can put my fun exhaust back on the car and it seems to behaving beautifully.

-Ryan

[Legacy777]

Good deal. Thanks for the update Ryan.