There's gremlins in my wires!!

[FundamentalyConfused]

So I've encountered a problem with my Subie and I'm wracking my brain trying to figure this out. From time to time when I go to start up my car it appears to suffer from a dying battery, sick sounding beeps and very dim dash lights, and it wont start at all not even click the starter solenoid.

It first appeared after we had a hard rain about a month ago. The top of my windshield somewhere is leaking water inside. There's a drip from my headliner that hits square in the middle of the front edge of the drivers seat. The windshield has a crack in it so I'm not wasting my time sealing it before I have it replaced. I'm not sure if water is coming down the A pillars and running down the inside of the firewall.

So far I haven't had the time to really run down wires but I have pulled off the kick panel under the steering wheel and checked it out with my flash light. I don't see any obvious signs that water could be getting in up there but that doesn't mean it's not either. The clutch switch wires, brake switch wires and I don't remember what but there's a third connector that bundles up and runs up to the right side of the steering wheel before it takes a 90 deg turn to the firewall. I'm pretty sure it splices into the nearby main bundle that goes thru the firewall.

I haven't been able to find a reliable way to get it to snap out of it's funk when it acts up. The first time I got it started again by holding the key on and pumping the clutch. The second time it started working again after hitting the brake pedal kinda hard. Today took the longest time trying to get it going, I even entertained the idea of push starting the bastard. It was 5-7 minutes of pumping the clutch, brake and every combination of key on and key off.

Any ideas out there? I haven't really tested any switches because what switch other than the ignition could make it seem like it has a dying battery? Could there be some wires that are starting to lose their protective coating and be causing a short?

I don't know if it's related but when there's heavy moisture in the air I can almost count on hitting my brake and having my radio cut out for a split second. It's almost as if the accessory power wire is interrupted. It doesn't happen if I keep pumping the brake though. I have to have been driving for a little bit for it to cut the radio again.

One other thing. What are the 3 connectors for that are between the battery and washer fluid? Mine are very filthy looking and I had a long shot thought that if i cleaned those that might fix the problem.

Thanks guys.

[rallyak]

I would clean all the connections on the battery,starter and the grounds and see if that fixes the problem. As for the water leak at the windshield is rust that has worked it way under the paint and water is leaking, well that's what happend on mine from the glass guy cutting the paint and didn't properly reseal it.

[FundamentalyConfused]

Any clue why hitting my brake will cut my radio out for a split second? It only seems to do it when there's been a rain. There's no damage on the hood to let water in so I have no clue why this is happening.

[rallyak]

Could possibly be a weak alternator,and only presents it self when raining with wipers on and heater blower. Mine would do that same thing in the winter with all the accessories on. On mine I also added a 4 gadge wire from alternater power post straight to battery, that way all the power dont have to travel through a small 10 gadge wire therefor better power to the battery. I haven't had a problem since, I hope this helps.

[FundamentalyConfused]

Well I guess I'll start with spraying everything down with contact cleaner. I might buy a new main power wire and ground for the battery and just go from there.

[JDMSLIK]

Sometimes a little brute force and ignorance works best for any repair.....although it'd be a good idea to treat the following procedure gently

Definitely sounds like gremlins. If I was going to try and fix it ignorantly I'd go under the dash and pull apart every connector and thoroughly inspect it. Looking for corrosion specifically. To be a little more specific I'd go after the brake and clutch neutral switch. Maybe look through a wiring schematic and see if those two circuits meet up through the same main connector. Sounds like if thats the case there's also a good possibly some of the wiring for an ignition or main realy might be located there as well.
The quick and dirty way would to be just go under the dash and pull apart all the big connectors until you find something. I'd stay away from under hood for now. If you have a major interior water leak I'd start there first. If you find something please post back to let us know:)

[Legacy777]

Do you hear a click at all from the starter when you try and start the car? Have you taken the starter off to see how the solenoid contacts look?

You could have water getting in one of the switches for the starter interlock system, which could be causing your problem, or the starter solenoids may be bad, or you may have a short. Unfortunately, without some additional information/testing, it'd be hard to pin-point the problem.

[FundamentalyConfused]

This is under the drivers side dash right next to the fuse box. What is this wire that's spliced for? There's no wire coming out the other side of the plug, the wire goes up farther into the bundle and is hard wired into what looks like 2 more red wires. I have no idea if those other 2 wires have the black stripe on them.




I really want to tear into my connections but still feel like it's going to be a waste of effort until I get the windshield replaced and stop the moisture from getting in.

When it acts up there's no click at all Josh. I haven't taken the starter off because when it's dry out there's no issue, starts easy.

I'm starting to wonder if someone had to replace some of the factory harness. It looks like someone's done something under the drivers side dash but I have no idea what. I do know this car was in an accident at some point in its life, bad enough to give it a salvage title, and has had a motor swap.

[Legacy777]

I'm not sure what that wire goes to. You can look through the wiring diagrams and check. That connector is B36, and I believe it will be pin 5. It may have something to do with the engine control, or just misc. wiring.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... agrams.zip

[FundamentalyConfused]

I gotta bring this thread back to life cuz the gremlins are back and it's gotten worse. I got stranded today in the Meijer parking lot with my car not wanting to start. It took more than an hour to get it going.

My first clue there was something wrong today was hitting the brakes was seemingly interrupting the power supply to the car, my dash lights flickered and the radio was cutting out again, but the car wasn't showing any other symptoms of interrupted power. No changes in engine performance or tone.
The 2nd clue was when I got to the store and turned the car off I opened the door and my auto seat belt didn't budge. Closed the door and opened it again and it did nothing, ran the key thru the ignition again and there's no lights coming on in the dash and the seat belt is still not working.

So I'm stranded in the Meijer parking lot, thankfully I have my tools in the trunk and my voltmeter too. I take the steering column apart because I want to see if there's voltage at the ignition switch. There is voltage coming though to the back of the switch and all the wires seem to have voltage on them at various switch selections. I've searched through the pdf service manual for the JDM and the Liberty and can't find anything about what the voltages are supposed to be at the switch.

Here's what I checked with the voltmeter.
Battery. Got various readings from 12.0 to 13.5
Ignition switch. One had 12v, 2 others had lower voltages at different switch selections but would never have 12v coming back out, and the 4th was the ground I believe and I want to say I saw v coming out that one too but I was freaking out a little bit at that point and I'm not really sure what I saw at that point.

I then decided to check for Amps at the ignition switch. Now my tester is rated for up to 10A, it's a cheap POS that I got in college, and when I've tried using it this way on my car before it seemingly spot welds my contacts. Well that happened again and there was a light that flashed on the dash. I tried the ignition again and my dash lights came back on and I was able to get the car started again. I kinda think I might have shorted the 12v constant to something.

I'm now starting to think that the ignition switch itself might be going bad but that doesn't explain why hitting the brake would make dash lights flicker and the radio go off and on.

I need some help guys. What kind of V should I be seeing coming out of the ignition switch when in different key positions?

I think I'm going to have to go through the painful process of extracting pages out of the pdf to have them printed out. It's easier for me to look at electrical diagrams on paper than on screen.

[Legacy777]

Here are the power supply routing diagrams

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/fil ... uting1.jpg
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/fil ... uting2.jpg

In the second one you can see the ignition switch and what it's doing. It's getting power in on B63 pin 1, and feeding battery voltage to the other pins, depending on what position the key is in. You should be able to test this relatively easily. If you get good battery voltage on pin 1, but not good battery voltage on the others when the key is in the specified spot, then yes, I would suspect the ignition switch.

[FundamentalyConfused]

So far there's been a few issues that's come up that's been the cause of this.

It died on me the other day pulling into the drive way and I didn't find out until it was too late that I needed to operate on my ignition switch. I came out after 30 mins or so of getting home and there was no sign of problems. Come 9:30pm I find out there is a problem and it needs fixing.

So I took the ignition switch apart and it was really dirty. Got it all shiny clean again and put the switch back together and after I got the plug hooked up the first time trying it I got no signs of problem. Trying to start it dims the dash lights and has symptoms of a dying battery. Tried jumping it for 30 mins b4 I gave up at 12:30am. Tried jumping it again in the morning, before the sun was up, and it still would not start with a jump.

After the sun came up I got to see lots of fuzzy white corrosion growing on my battery by the caps, dying battery diagnosed. Got a new used battery in it, with a 1yr warranty, and after trying to tighten the neg terminal I found that the clamp wasn't holding tight from the gaping gash the bolt pulled out. I put on a new negative wire, this kind has the clamp and wire as one piece.

So far aside from the initial scare of not starting, it was the positive clamp not tight enough, the gremlin hasn't reappeared.

I'm not really sure what I would check next if it comes back. There's 2 wiring diagrams in the service manual, one for charging and one for starting, that both show 1 wire coming coming from the ignition on position but there's 2 different numbered connections and rating when it comes to the fuse. One says 15 and is 10A and the other says 16 and is 15A. I'm pretty sure the first number is the fuse position on the under-dash fuse panel.

This is really going to turn into a head scratcher if that damn gremlin comes back.

[rallyak]

I believe you cured it with good tight clean connections. Please keep us posted.

[Legacy777]

Thanks for the update.

[FundamentalyConfused]

So it's been about a week since I put in the new battery and I haven't had an issue yet.

I think I've figured out how water is getting in my car but I haven't been able to prove it yet. I suspect the seals that are in the roof trim are bad and letting water in the cabin and the trunk. I haven't taken the trim apart yet because that looks like a challenge that's going to take 2 or more hours. Until I get new seals in there's no sense in taking all that trim off and taking a chance my door seal rips in the process. I can't even find a detailed step by step process to take the trim apart.