EJ22t no compression warm

[sciroccoboi]

BACK FROM THE DEAD.

So, .... a lot of money in machine work, parts, and a lot of my time later, the block in question is now .020 over, resurfaced, and cleaned. Inside is a fresh ground crank cut .10 under on both rods and mains, king bearings all around.

Put it together, started it up, and it ran ok again, yay ...

Then 2 and 4 died.

After crying and killing myself in my head millions of times, I checked compression and both are dead.

So that left the heads, with the valves.

Tried a different head and same issue, the lifters are pumping up so much that they hold the valves open, but only on one side?

SO after seariching I have found nothing really. The block itself is perfect, the bores, the pistons, everything all looks beauty.

So i have a few questions, is there supposed to be an oil restrictor in the block somewhere for the heads to keep this from happening?

The rocker shaft appears to have some sort of spring loaded relief valve in the end, do these malfunction? If they did would it cause this?

Whats the max oil pressure you can/should have on this motor? I have around 25-30 psi cold and then by like 4500 its at around 90. though that could be my autozone guage.

I put the pickup for the gage directly under the intake in one of the galley plugs, is this an ok spit?

The only thing I could think is that there is supposed to not be a second bolt in the rocker caps holding the rocker shaft in place because thats where oil can bleed, but this seems false as i see lots of pictures with bolts in both sides of the rocker shaft. Does the spring loaded end need to go on a specific side of the head? I,e. feed side or non feed side?


Thanks in advance guys.

[Legacy777]

Have you taken the valve cover off and verified that valves are not closing when the lifter is not on the cam lobe?

The rocker assemblies are identical, so what I might suggest is swapping the rocker assemblies between the left and right side of the motor. They can only be installed one way, so there shouldn't be any issues with installing them incorrectly. There is no oil restrictor that I'm aware of, and honestly I don't think this is the issue.

You oil pressure looks fine and where you have it tapped is ok.

Have you checked your timing? How long did the engine run ok?

Have you just done a compression test or did you do a leak down test?

[sciroccoboi]

Have you taken the valve cover off and verified that valves are not closing when the lifter is not on the cam lobe?

The rocker assemblies are identical, so what I might suggest is swapping the rocker assemblies between the left and right side of the motor. They can only be installed one way, so there shouldn't be any issues with installing them incorrectly. There is no oil restrictor that I'm aware of, and honestly I don't think this is the issue.

You oil pressure looks fine and where you have it tapped is ok.

Have you checked your timing? How long did the engine run ok?

Have you just done a compression test or did you do a leak down test?

Actually I took the head off and could physically see that the valves were open regardless of cam lobe position, even on the dead back side of the cam. Did compression test to find out I had no compression before pulling the head, and then after trying a different head when the same issue arose I did another compression test and found no compression.

It ran about 4 minutes before seriously going to shiz. Unplugging injectors to do a balance test resulted in almost no change when unplugging 2, and absolutely no chance when unplugging 4.

I put a set of roller rockers on it today and left the valve lash loose, as the car is at my parents and I left my feeler gages at my house from building the motor.

Aside from being loud due to excessive lash, it ran reasonably well. It sounded like it had a massive cam in it, I'd assume from the non roller cam profile. BUT, I drove it and the way it ran never changed as far as cylinder balance. When unplugging injectors from 2 and 4 they both make a significant difference now.

The only thing I can think of is I have 2 sets of heads with bad valve springs. I can think of nothing else. The heads came from some people who raced subarus so maybe the springs are all just too worn out and causing lifters to pump up.

I can't buy the idea that I managed to find ~24 bad lifers from 3 different heads that all failed in the exact same manner. I also cant think that mathematically having too much oil pressure can cause the lifters to be able to overpower valve springs of any sort of proper tension.

So now what I'd like to do is use roller rockers on both sides and find cams that will work for the turbo setup once we find all the parts for the conversion we need, mainly map/maf sensors. Both seem to be troublesome to find, I can't find info on what cams to run with roller rockers for the turbo motor, and I can't find a freaking map sensor to save my life. haha. Well, I haven't looked for the latter in a while.

Thanks a lot for being willing to help guys. I guess the next question I have for yall is about what cams to run that use solid lifters and roller rockers if any. And where I can find a map sensor. I'll go check the FS threads if you have one here.

[Legacy777]

So did you swap the heads/valves or just the rocker assembly and lifters? You kind of jumped around and I couldn't follow exactly what you did.

If you just swapped the rocker assembly & lifters to the roller lifter setup, then I don't see how the valve springs are the issue.

Any chance you could take a picture of the rocker assembly & lifters you took out? Are you sure you got the lifters seated all the way?

Regarding the roller rockers, as you probably know, you need the proper cam profile for that type of lifter. I am unaware of any SOHC turbo cams with a roller rocker profile. Delta Cams can make you a turbo cam grind for the roller rocker setup, but it won't be stock.

[sciroccoboi]

Sorry my posts are confusing. Some have been written while I was very very tired haha.

Basically what I have done is this.

In the beginning I tried bleeding lifters, checking timing, swapping rocker assemblies left to right, then eventually I gave up and had the motor bored over.

When I started it after the rebuild the same issue was there. So I tried a completely different set of rockers and lifters, swapped rocker assemblies again, checked timing. Then that didn't work so I tried a different head.
The lifters still pumped up enough to hold the valves open. This was also a different cam.

I changed rocker assemblies again and the problem resurfaced.

So I put roller rockers on it with manual adjusters and the car maintains compression instead of losing it as soon as its run for a little bit.

And I'll get a pic when I get over there. I'm taking a day off. Its raining in Washington and I've been working my rear off with my job and this car and about 3 other car projects I've had going.

[Legacy777]

Ok, thanks for clarifying what you've checked and done.

So to confirm.....you've tried different rockers, different cams, different valves AND springs, and different heads.....and the problem is always there on cylinder # 4?

If the above is true, the only common piece is the timing belt, gear/pullies, and head gasket. I don't think a head gasket could cause this, but I'm trying to rule out everything I could think of. Do you know if this engine ever ran properly before you got it? Is the belt for a first gen Legacy ej22? Same question on the crank gear & cam pullies.

I'm not sure what other parts could be the culprit. You could try a new oil pump, but from what you told me about the pressures, it sounds ok.

[sciroccoboi]

Okay I'll type this out hopefulyl as clear as possible so you know absolutely EVERYTHING I did, and since I'm not on my phone typing it'll be easier.

When the car lost compression on the drivers side bank at first I tried checking the timing and confirming the marks lined up.

I then tried changing rocker assemblies left to right.

When that didn't work I did leakdown and nothing seemed to be leaking from the valves (though the problem only really presented when the car was fully warm presumably as the lifters would bleed off when not running)
but the crankcase had like 80% blowby.

So I tried a different set of rings and whatnot, eventually came to the conclusion that the block was just too worn and needed to be bored over and whatntot.


After getting the block bored, I put everything back together and it ran great at first and then the problem re presented itself.

So I tried a compression test and 2/4 had almost nothing again, except this time compression didnt come back cold.

I tried a different set of rockerse from a different head that was on an engine that ran before it was pulled. It ran for a few minutes until again the problem returned. No compression on 2/4

I tried yet ANOTHER set of rockers that were lying around, and still no good.

I pulled the head and all the valves were open slghtly, I unbolted the rocker assemblies and they closed. Bolt the rockers back in and they opened. I mean all the valves, not just one cylinder or anything.

I then swapped to a spare head that the owner of the car had, Bled the lifters down and whatnot and put it all on, then it ran fine till the lifters again pumped up and I lost 2/4.

I tried another set of rockers again, etc.

Then I bolted the roller rocker assembly on, left the valve adjustments loose cause I didn't have feelers but they arent too far off, and it's maintained compression, but does run lopey.

The only common parts between any of these attempts are the timing belt and cam gears/covers. Everything else has been changed, headgaskets and whatnot, different rocker assemblies and all that jazz.

I bought a timing belt today to see if maybe I have it running a tooth off or something and thats the lopey part, but either way even if the cam timing was off, there's no reason the lifters would pump up enough to hold the valves open even when the cam is in a position to keep all the valves closed. It should just run like it's a tooth off, the lifters would adjust normally.

Also I have had 2 different oil pumps on the block, both a turbo and NA and the problem was there with both of them.


As far as I know the crank and cam gears are all correct for the motor, they all have the correct number of trigger points and whatnot, and the engine runs almost perfectly until the lifers pump up. The only thing I can think of for its lopey demeanor at this point is an improperly timed belt, which I will be replacing just to make sure, that or just needing a valve lash adjustment badly. but it DOES keep compression on the drivers side bank now. Unlike it ever did with hydro lifters.

IMO the ONLY thing that could cause the lifters to overpump is the valve springs all being too soft after hours upon hours of research online.

I don't know if any of the motor parts were in running order when I got them. The original head i was using was rebuilt before the owner of the car bought it and then never used until we put it on his block.

The previous owners sold him the whole shebang with block and everything and 2 rebuilt cylinder heads and 2 spare heads as a package deal. they were supposedly all spare parts for their race car.

[Legacy777]

Ok, I'm the same page now, and agree valve springs are probably the only remaining thing. Not knowing exactly how the previous owner setup the spare heads and all that are possible unknowns, but at this point may not be super relavent.