VW AWD?

[Yukonart]

OKay. . . since we're on this VW kick tonight. . .

What are everyone's impressions with VW's AWD systems? As we all know, the R32 gets one. . . and I'm just curious as to how well it stacks up to Subaru's.

[scottzg]

isnt it the audi system?

[Yukonart]

I think so. . . not sure. Haven't done any real research on them. I'm pretty sure the R32 (Golf platform) will be the smallest drivetrain they've put AWD onto, though.

[LaureltheQueen]

"4 motion" no thanks. I'd trust a company that's been in the business of making awd/4wd for decades more than one who just wants to try it out.

[vrg3]

VW/Audi have a few different AWD systems, and a few different names for them. Annoyingly, the names correspond with the cars they're put on, not with the technology used.

The original Quattro I think just had a manually lockable center differential.

There were several generations of systems that used Torsen center diffs. Torsen differentials are pretty clever. I don't fully understand how they work, but it's based on worm gears. In a worm drive setup, the worm shaft rotating turns the gear, but the gear can't make the worm shaft turn. So each side of the diff has a worm shaft on it with a worm gear, and the two worm gears are meshed together. When there is a torque difference, the worm gears bind and lock the two sides together. Somehow. :) It's a neat system because it responds to torque difference rather than speed difference like a viscous coupling. In principle that allows it to respond more quickly to loss of traction.

Some also used a viscous coupling as the center differential. This is different from what manual Subarus have; we have a viscous coupling in the center differential. The VW system is FWD until wheel speed differences heat up the viscous fluid and lock the front and rear together making it 4WD.

Another system uses a Haldex center differential. As I understand it, it's a computer-controlled clutch that transfers torque to the rear wheels. Not too different in principle from automatic Subarus. I don't remember the details of how it works though.

They call them Quattro, Syncro, and 4motion.

I believe the R32 has the Haldex setup, which supposedly outperforms even the Torsen.

Laurel - Remember that Audi made the first Quattro more than 2 decades ago.

[scottzg]

golf/jetta/a4/s4/cabrio/tt/touareg(jk) are the same chassis. seems fairly straightforward to put awd in, if you're the factory.

audi has been makin awd stuff for ~18 years. ever heard of quattro?

[Yukonart]

I had thought about the Quattro system. . . been around for along time. Just didn't know if it was a direct carryover as the 4Motion in VW's line, or if there was a difference.

[vrg3]

I think they first started using Torsen in the mid-80s, and I do believe they're still using it today.

[LaureltheQueen]

i'll put my foot in my mouth. i was uninformed

[evolutionmovement]

I read in Car Magazine a ways back that the 4-Motion is a different (cheaper) and inferior system to the Quattro. It's also a marketing thing as they want to keep Audi's AWD system as their best since that's part of their brand ID. Plus what the hell else is there really to seperate them?

Steve

[vrg3]

Well, like I said, the marketers have destroyed the connection between the name and the technology. So we'd have to know which exact cars they were talking about... My guess is the 4Motion was a viscous coupling center differential and the Quattro was a Torsen. But they put Torsens in VWs too.

[evolutionmovement]

I keep a database of all magazine articles from the 6-7 I buy every month (yeah, we all know I'm single). I could use it to look up the specific VW AWD system particulars for a given model if anyone really needs them.

Steve

[Legacy777]

My uncle started driving subies in the 80's and once you get hooked on AWD.....you can't go back. He had an AWD bravada for a while, then moved to a 96 A6. The quattro AWD in that car was pretty damn good. He has a new 2.7t A6. The AWD system in the new one is pretty much like what subaru has with its VDC system.

You floor it, point the car where you want it to go, and it goes. If you get any sliding or tweaking, the whole car just sorta slowly steps out on a turn. Granted this was on dry pavement on a cloverleaf on-ramp, but still fun non-the-less

[ciper]

"He has a new 2.7t A6."

Wait until he gets 30k+ miles on it and the cost of ownership starts to climb, or it spends more time at the dealer than the driveway.

Wait until he decides to sell it and finds out that even though KBB and Edmunds say one price you will never find anyone to buy it for that much.

[Legacy777]

ehh....it's a company car....so it's not that big of deal. I'm sure he's got well over 30k+ on it by now. They drive all over pennsylvania visiting job sites, etc.

[91White-T]

R32 gets one. . . and I'm just curious as to how well it stacks up to Subaru's.

Haha, for a second there I thought you were talking about the good R32 not the garbage Golf...

[Yukonart]

R32 gets one. . . and I'm just curious as to how well it stacks up to Subaru's.

Haha, for a second there I thought you were talking about the good R32 not the garbage Golf...

lol, yeah. . . strange that VW still went with a designation that'll cause a lot of confusion among tuners. Oh well, they're European. . . what do they car, right? lol

[vrg3]

Yeah, it annoyed me that they did that...

But... is it called the R32 in other markets? The "real" R32 was never sold in North America. Maybe in some markets the Golf R32 has a different name.

Like how the Mitsubishi GTO was renamed 3000GT for the US. Or how the Subaru Legacy was renamed Liberty for Australia.

[970subaru]

VW has had awd programs in the past. Called synchro, it was on everything from vanagons to the mighty rallye golf. it was pretty much your standard viscous coupling. came on regular mk 2 golfs, rallye golfs(supercharged 1.8 8v, aka g60), g60 passats, quantums(pretty much an audi), and vanagons.

[vrg3]

Uh, some Quattro systems are Torsen-based.

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/galler ... &seqnum=14

So are some Syncro systems.

http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/VW/Passat/2000.html

So are some 4Motion systems.

http://www.autointell-news.com/News-200 ... -02-p4.htm

Like I said above, the brand name doesn't map one-to-one with the technology used.

[970subaru]

thats pretty cool, Im not really familiar with any of their newer systems.

[vrg3]

Just a friendly suggestion -- you might consider reading through the thread before responding to it, and refraining from stating something as fact when you know that you're not well informed about it.

[970subaru]

youre right. guess I wrote that kind of late at night. I havent really been following what technology the newer cars have, and was just saying what I knew about the older systems.

[TireIron]

well all audis with front to rear engine (meaning all except the TT) that are awd have the true original quattro system which spanks just about anything out there.

the vw awd and the TTs which are all transverse engines get the haldex system which is a joke compared to the true audi quattro or our suby systems. so even though the TTs say quattro on the back of em theyre not quattro, theyre haldex.