EJ22T hybrid build

[08impreza]

I'm starting a ej22t hybrid build and was wondering if I could get some input on my planned setup and what I should use. I want to make 300-350whp and maybe more down the road (but this is the starting goal). I'm also trying to keep this a somewhat budget build (I know these hybrids can end up being far from cheap).

Here is what I plan on using
-ej22t block
-wiseco pistons
-EJ257 STI rods
-ej22t crank
-ej25d heads (MY98)
-ej20g intake manifold (given to me with the engine)
-Turbo will depend on what kind of deals I can find, but most likely a vf39/48/52

That will be the base of my setup. The ej22t long block I picked up was missing the oil pump, pan, and pickup. What do you recommend I use to replace this (oem, aftermarket, etc.)?
How is the valve train and cams in the 25d heads? Can the heads handle boost stock, or do you recommend cam regrinds (or different cams) and new valve springs and retainers (I heard ej257 valve train works)?
I was also given the ej20g intake manifold with the engine, but it didn't have the throttle body. Can I reuse the 22T throttle body? Should I stick with the 20g side feed injectors or convert to top feed? and what size injectors should I use?
What recommendations for ecu do you have for this setup? I'm pretty sure standalone or piggy back is going to be needed or will a rob tune ecu work?
I currently don't have a car for this engine (but will be looking for either a 1st gen legacy or 1st gen impreza for the build).

This is just a side project for me and have as much time as I need to do this right.

Any input wold be greatly appreciated. All the other forums told me to come here for ej22t hybrid questions because you guys are the experts

[Splinter]

If you're interested I have a set of heads from my ej22t/25D hybrid block that lost a rod

They were built by delta cams. +1mm oversized stainless valves, reground cams for turbo, oil and water fittings for factory location turbo

paid around 2500 for them

asking 1000 + shipping. There's no signs of any damage to the heads or contamination in the oil but the price reflects that they should probably get stripped and cleaned by a machine shop before use.

[08impreza]

If you're interested I have a set of heads from my ej22t/25D hybrid block that lost a rod

They were built by delta cams. +1mm oversized stainless valves, reground cams for turbo, oil and water fittings for factory location turbo

paid around 2500 for them

asking 1000 + shipping. There's no signs of any damage to the heads or contamination in the oil but the price reflects that they should probably get stripped and cleaned by a machine shop before use.

I already have the 25D heads. Thanks for the offer though

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

There are quite a bit of threads out there discussing some of the topics you raised. I would suggest checking out these for what others have experienced. The 25D heads can be used, but do have their own issues.

The DOHC installation 'unspoken' details thread
2.5D swap or Franken motor

[08impreza]

Welcome to the BBS.

There are quite a bit of threads out there discussing some of the topics you raised. I would suggest checking out these for what others have experienced. The 25D heads can be used, but do have their own issues.

The DOHC installation 'unspoken' details thread
2.5D swap or Franken motor

Thank you! I've already been through that 1st link quite a few times, but the second seems to be a good source for 25d heads. I've been researching for a few months already and these were the questions I couldn't find quite a clear answer to. What's throwing me off the most is the 20g manifold because everyone seems to use the 25d manifold. But for all I now the 20 g manifold can be making my life a lot easier (which is what I'm starting to seed a bit when looking into the rob tune ECU's).

The setup I want to get closest to is xephyr's ej22t hybrid from years ago (http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=1051). His posts are over 10 years old, but wow do they impress me.

Valve train wise, I'm probably going to try and find ej257 valve springs and retainers because above 6000+rpm there starts to be valve float with the stock parts. I think the stock 25d cams should be sufficient enough because from looking at specs, they are almost identical to 20g cams and relatively close to 20k cams. The weak point seems to be the valve train. Also, xephyr broke one of his custom cams and went to stock cams and didn't feel too much of a difference. He mentioned he lost some top end power but gained a lot of bottom end and the car became a lot more street able (but this is on heavily machined heads with titanium valve springs).

[86BRATMAN]

Can I ask what about the 20g manifold is throwing you off? The only thing of any significance I can see off hand is the lack of egr, which doesn't make a big of difference to the gen 1 cars. Grab an m16x1.5 oil drain plug and plug the hole in the back of the driver's side head.

[mike-tracy]

I would say "most" people doing a dohc swap on their ej22t, use whatever dohc manifold is commonly available. Hence the ej25d mani being the usual choice.

[08impreza]

Can I ask what about the 20g manifold is throwing you off? The only thing of any significance I can see off hand is the lack of egr, which doesn't make a big of difference to the gen 1 cars. Grab an m16x1.5 oil drain plug and plug the hole in the back of the driver's side head.

My concerns were with the ecu. But if I run a rob tune ecu, it should actually make my life easier because those are based off 20g ecu's. But would using the 22t TB throw anything off? I want to use the 20G manifold because it was given to me with the engine (with fuel rails and injectors, just missing TB) and I've heard they flow very well. But if its not recommended, I can always fine a 25d manifold.

I'm still new to engine builds (this is my first build) and there are finer details that I wouldn't even know about unless you guys bring them up or I have to find out the hard way (like you mentioning the lack of EGR, I would've never thought of that myself). Keep in mind, I still haven't started the build, I'm just doing my research first before I dive head first into this thing. I do have to 2 engine builders that I can ask for help or call up anytime for advice, but they have more experience with V8's (one of which is my uncle who is currently involved in a few NASCAR programs for Bonneville cars and a jet car program meant to set the land speed record). So I have good support if I do need help, but their experience isn't with turbo flat 4's. So I'm trying to gather as much information on my own and have every detail covered before I start so I don't make mistakes. I'm not asking you guys to do my homework for me, I'm just looking for advice and hopefully having any mistakes I'm making corrected along the way. No matter how much research I do, nothing will compare to the advice I can get from people with experience with these builds.

[mike-tracy]

If you got a complete ej20g manifold I highly recommend using it. It has a more elegant PCV setup, idle air control is in a logical spot which doesn't take space around the turbo like the non turbo manifold. Matter of fact - the Subaru used that manifold in their rally cars for many years with the Legacy then Impreza.


(they modified the manifold to run an under intake turbo inlet, using spacers and a custom fuel rail setup)

Downside includes no place for a coil pack if you're running wasted spark. If you run coil-on-plug then obviously there's no issue. Also, if you use a modern turbo, you have to get a 90* silicone tube to connect the stock intake.

[08impreza]

If you got a complete ej20g manifold I highly recommend using it. It has a more elegant PCV setup, idle air control is in a logical spot which doesn't take space around the turbo like the non turbo manifold. Matter of fact - the Subaru used that manifold in their rally cars for many years with the Legacy then Impreza.

(they modified the manifold to run an under intake turbo inlet, using spacers and a custom fuel rail setup)

Downside includes no place for a coil pack if you're running wasted spark. If you run coil-on-plug then obviously there's no issue. Also, if you use a modern turbo, you have to get a 90* silicone tube to connect the stock intake.

So 20g manifold it is. I heard about them using it for quite a while in the rally cars. I have no idea why the guy just offered to give me the manifold with the 22T when I bought it (which was dirt cheap as it is).

Any tips for the coil-on-plug setup? (this is another thing I don't know too much about)

Another question, will an 09 STI oil pan, pickup, and baffle fit an ej22t? I'm missing all these parts and I can get a great deal while picking up some ej257 rods. As far as I know, it seems that all these parts are compatible amongst most ej motors.

[mike-tracy]

Coil on plug conversion Bible - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... conversion

I don't know for sure if the 09 pan will fit, though I suspect it will. I swapped the old style pan for an 06 STI one. I've heard that some aftermarket exhaust manifolds won't fit, but my stock one does. It's been a while, but I remember having a problem with the stock oil cooler not fitting due to the pan. I don't remember the specifics but I went with an STI one and it worked.

[08impreza]

Coil on plug conversion Bible - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... conversion

I don't know for sure if the 09 pan will fit, though I suspect it will. I swapped the old style pan for an 06 STI one. I've heard that some aftermarket exhaust manifolds won't fit, but my stock one does. It's been a while, but I remember having a problem with the stock oil cooler not fitting due to the pan. I don't remember the specifics but I went with an STI one and it worked.

The 09 STI pan is the same as the 06+ (in 06 they changed something because there were some sort of issues with the old style, i forget what exactly).

And thanks for the link

[mike-tracy]

Good deal. I checked out the engine in question, it does have the stock SS oil cooler and sti pan, so im not sure why I remembered that an oil cooler not working.

[86BRATMAN]

The cop swap isn't that difficult, I'm running it on an na dohc ej22 off my stock ecu. I would recommend not soldering the wires directly to the coilpack though. There are connectors available aftermarket on eBay, or from an engine harness that make a much neater job. Failure rate is low for the ej205 era coilpack but they're not invincible lol.

[PhyrraM]

IIRC, the new shape oil pan was introduced for cars with a twin scroll turbo. It was the twin scroll exhaust that didn't clear the old pan. The EJ255/EJ257 got the new pan, even though they didn't get the Twin scroll.

Yes, if you use all the parts together, you can use the '09 pan. Just don't mix the pan, baffle and pickup among pan types.

[08impreza]

IIRC, the new shape oil pan was introduced for cars with a twin scroll turbo. It was the twin scroll exhaust that didn't clear the old pan. The EJ255/EJ257 got the new pan, even though they didn't get the Twin scroll.

Yes, if you use all the parts together, you can use the '09 pan. Just don't mix the pan, baffle and pickup among pan types.

Thank you. I'm picking up all those parts along with some ej257 rods from an 09 STI that was a victim of ringland failure (everything has about 40,000km on them). I personally know the guy (why I'm getting an awesome deal on the stuff) and he's totally rebuilding his ej257 with aftermarket everything.

Could the ringland failure have caused any damage to the rods? Anything I should check in particular when I go to pick them up?

[Legacy777]

IIRC, the new shape oil pan was introduced for cars with a twin scroll turbo. It was the twin scroll exhaust that didn't clear the old pan. The EJ255/EJ257 got the new pan, even though they didn't get the Twin scroll.

Yes, if you use all the parts together, you can use the '09 pan. Just don't mix the pan, baffle and pickup among pan types.

To elaborate on this, I have heard of an oil pick up failure on some of the STi motors. A buddy had a motor out of an 05 and decided to get a new pick up to be on the safe side. I really don't know the details, but I'm sure someone on here may know or a quick search on NASIOC would probably tell you.

[Legacy777]

...would using the 22t TB throw anything off? I want to use the 20G manifold because it was given to me with the engine (with fuel rails and injectors, just missing TB) and I've heard they flow very well. But if its not recommended, I can always fine a 25d manifold.

The 22t TB has clearance issues on the 20G manifold. I believe kimokalihi and a few other members have modified the 22t TB and reversed it to work on the 20G manifold. I don't know all the details, but if you have or can use a 20G TB that would probably be best. I'd suggest searching for more details on the TB.

[PhyrraM]

The throttle body issue is with EJ20k under-the-manifold-turbo-inlet manifolds. (The 'late' EJ20g like Kimo's is basically an EJ20k with HLA heads.)

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[mike-tracy]

Josh, you are thinking of the ej20k manifold. Or the forester "ej20k in every way except for name" manifold. I have 2 ej20g manifolds (one from an impreza and the other from a legacy) and their throttle bodies are virtually identical to an ej22.

[08impreza]

Josh, you are thinking of the ej20k manifold. Or the forester "ej20k in every way except for name" manifold. I have 2 ej20g manifolds (one from an impreza and the other from a legacy) and their throttle bodies are virtually identical to an ej22.

So does this meant the 22t TB should fit? Or would you be referring to the 22e? Or are they both the same TB?

And just to clarify, I have no idea which 20g manifold this (apparently there are 2 different 20g's). When I picked up the 22t, the guy just gave it to me because he said he wouldn't have a use for it.

Heres a picture of it

[PhyrraM]

That is a '92-'96 EJ20G STI (if the red is OEM) manifold. It is the same as a regular '92-'96 WRX intake manifold in every way other than the red paint.

It should take a EJ22T throttlebody with zero issues.

It will bolt to the EJ25d heads without issues. The EJ25d intake ports are slightly smaller then the manifold ports, but that won't present a problem. If your a perfectionist, porting the heads to match a EJ20G intake gasket ("port matching") will provide some small flow gains.

[Legacy777]

PhyrraM & Mike,

Thanks for the clarification. I knew of some sort of issue with something, but didn't know the details behind it... But apparently it wasn't an issue with the 20g manifold.