What type of intercooler?

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:41 am

I'm illiterate turbo-wise, as I aquired most of my car knowledge from honda nuts.

For a turbo legacy engine, I want a FMIC, what size do i need?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:10 am

Front mounts are old and busted. Air to water is the new hotness!

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:17 am

How much power do you plan on making and how much lag do you want to deal with? I would imagine the turbo choice would also have an effect depending on its efficiency range.

Steve

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:32 pm

I have a FMIC with TD05 on a 2ltr engine, and have fullboost by 3200rpm on a crap tune. what lag? remember I have just swapped from a water/air to fmic aswell, I see no difference lag wise, and to tell you the truth I was expecting some but it never came, also swapped from a VF12 to a TD05 at the same time.

I don't beleive lag is even a consideration. the factory air water setup for a RS is only good for 300HP at the motor. thats why I swapped, because it would be far out of its efficiency range for my application.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:05 pm

If you think about the volume of air in a front-mount's piping, it's not that large. I think the stereotypical lag problem with front-mounts probably arises from restrictions and stuff from imperfect piping.

There are good arguments for a front-mount air/air unit over an air/water unit. Less weight and complexity are two of them.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:46 pm

rsstiboy wrote:I have a FMIC with TD05 on a 2ltr engine, and have fullboost by 3200rpm on a crap tune. what lag? remember I have just swapped from a water/air to fmic aswell, I see no difference lag wise, and to tell you the truth I was expecting some but it never came, also swapped from a VF12 to a TD05 at the same time. I don't beleive lag is even a consideration. the factory air water setup for a RS is only good for 300HP at the motor. thats why I swapped, because it would be far out of its efficiency range for my application.

Not that you couldn't also run a custom AW for applications higher than only 300hp:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... did=479705

But I agree with the others that a lot of the lag on an FMIC can be prevented by doing the piping right and mating it to the right choice of turbo...

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:52 pm

Not to heist th thread, but it looks like Xypher changed from the ej22T to going with the ej25T. Does anyone know why? Has he said?

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:56 pm

yeah, you could change the volumes of the water/air, but you are still limited to space, I took the easy way out.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:15 pm

So by you guys' experience with front mounts, it would be unnecessary to reverse the intake manifold (as the WRC car) in order to reduce pipe length, and therefore, lag.

Steve

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:03 am

evolutionmovement wrote:So by you guys' experience with front mounts, it would be unnecessary to reverse the intake manifold (as the WRC car) in order to reduce pipe length, and therefore, lag.

If you're one of those crazy people that hates efficiency, then by all means, leave your intake manifold the way it is. However, if you're interested in a more efficient method of intercooling your engine, then this is THE way to do it. Reduced pipe length = less lag, true. But what you're also forgetting is that the more pipe that resides in your engine bay post-turbo the more it is re-exposed to underhood teperatures. If you're running hot enough to require a front mount intercooler, do it right the first time and get it over with.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:12 am

georryan wrote:Not to heist th thread, but it looks like Xypher changed from the ej22T to going with the ej25T. Does anyone know why? Has he said?

Because money isn't an issue with him apparently and the STI short block was available to him would be my guess. He was at the last ice race in Denver but I missed it. Placed in the middle of the pack if I remember correctly.

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:06 am

Um.... i just dont want to change out my hood. Leaving my car as stock as possible on the outside is my main goal. So.... FMIC it is. All i"m looking for is some advice on the best kind/size to get

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:14 am

if you wanted the most efficient setup (do it right the 1st time)...

First you'll need to know what the maximum amount of space is in your bumper that you can use.
2nd, you'll need to know how much air your turbo will push at your desired PSI.
3rd, you'll need to look at intercoolers that will flow just over that amount of air.
4th, then look at surface area of the said intercoolers.
5th, compare the said intercoolers with the amount of space that you have measured in step 1.

and just for fun, here are some online calculators:
http://www.rapidline.com/calc/index.htm

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:15 am

"stock as possible on the outside is my main goal. So.... FMIC it is."

Hello? Are you smoking something? What can be more stock than a water intercooler that came from an overseas Legacy of the same generation?

Since the water intercooler doesnt run intake up to the front of the vehicle the amount of modification is small. Realize only RSSTIBOY is saying 300 is the limit. Is that 300 on a turbo outside its efficiency range producing tons of extra heat.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:18 am

It's why I'm going with an AWIC. I want it to look like an L wagon with some fog lights and cheap aftermarket wheels to 90% of the people.

Steve

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:23 am

ummm... awic sits on top of the engine, does it not? I do not want a hood scoop.

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:24 am

That's the key of an Air/water intercooler. No need for a hood scoop because the cooler is cooled down by the flow of the water.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:26 am

The Mercedes-McLaren SLR has 2 AWICs.

Steve

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:26 am

ah!!!!!!!!!!!!

okay.

Now I understand. ah geez

will it be good for ~215 hp?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:30 am

They're saying 300HP, but I would think a larger intercooler radiator and water reservoir with appropriate pump would be good for more. Then again, that's more weight. I'm looking for 250-270 myself.

Steve

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:31 am

The air to water intercooler needs nothing near it. The cooling comes from water going through pipes to a remote radiator. You could mount that radiator on the roof if you wanted.

Dont let these guys railroad you in the wrong direction.

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:31 am

how much would I be looking to spend on one?

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:20 am

tsk tsk tsk... searching.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ntercooler
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ntercooler
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ntercooler

for good reading: http://legacycentral.org/library/rod/ic/1.htm

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:52 am

sweet!

I'll have my mom's girlfriend(who's australian) ask her sister to track one down for me.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:48 am

ciper wrote:The air to water intercooler needs nothing near it. The cooling comes from water going through pipes to a remote radiator. You could mount that radiator on the roof if you wanted.

Dont let these guys railroad you in the wrong direction.

you obviosly haven't seen how it works, the piping comes back from the front heat exchanger DIRECTLY over the heads, not a good design

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What type of intercooler?

What type of intercooler?