'91 Legacy T Won't Start

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:22 pm

Hello,

My '91 Legacy T won't start. I purchased the car very cheap because it
could not be started. The battery has been replaced. When the key is
inserted into the ignition there is no reponse from the starter,
heater motor, radio, headlights, dash lights, locks windows etc... No
clicks or fuel pump or any relays. The car did have an alarm at one
point but it has been removed.

Here's what I know is working:

Interior Lights Work (the ones by the sunroof controls)
Door ajar display on dash
Chimes when key is in ignition
Horn
Hazard lights
Interior Fuse box Light

What I have Tested:

Main Fuse and Interior fuse box fuses are good (tested) and 12 volts
(Incl. the very visible fuseable link in the Main Fuse Box)

I manually jumped starter at the starter itself and there is power -
it will crank

There is power in the large wire feeding the Interior fuse box but the
critical fuses do not have power.

The ignition switch registeres no power in any position.

Advice anyone! Thanks!

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:23 pm

Do a search for starter relay, I think Legacy777 has the writeup about it.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:17 am

if you have no power at the ignition switch then I'd probably think the starter relay is ok.

Have you checked all the relays/fuses in the boxes. Sounds like you're not getting power to a main junction...and ecu is not turning on....which explains why you could crank the engine by manually jumping the starter but wouldn't start

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:45 am

I didnt catch that. Sorry

Fusable link?

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:08 am

Thanks Guys,

I'll rework the fuses and relays. I thought I checked and confirmed but there are quite a few!

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:06 pm

None of the wires at the ignition switch register power? Not even the one that's supposed to be connected to the battery?

If that's the case, then you should check SBF-4 under the hood and also the big slow-blow fuse all the way at the front of the underhood fuse box.

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:14 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. There is no power registering at all at the ignition, regardless of postion. I'll check those fuses. I will replace them!

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:41 am

Hey vrg3,

I checked SBF 4 and the fuseable link - all seems to have power and continuity. One thing I did notice, my alternator only has 6.5 volts of power.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Matt

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:19 pm

Sounds like your battery is gone. 6.5 volts is very low. Chances are two or three of the cells are completely dead.

You're unlikely to be able to recharge this battery again, so you may as well get a new one even if it's not the only problem in your car.

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:02 pm

I guess you are right. When I measure battery voltage at the battery the is 12 volts and I get 12 volts at other places mentioned in the first post but this alternator thing is definately strange.

I'll find a new battery.

Matt

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:13 pm

Woah, wait a second!

You measure 12 volts at the battery and 6.5 volts at the alternator? That makes no sense. The alternator is supposed to be connected to the battery directly.

Maybe your positive battery cable and your alternator are bad?

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:42 pm

I did a bit more troubleshooting. The temp outside was warm at -10 deg C (but the wind is what got me today) so I had to spend an hour or so on this mess.

The positive battery cable is OK and I traced the large white cables from the alternator (the ones with low voltage - around 2 volts not 6.5 - sorry) and found that they pass through the Main Fuse Box (just behind the battery). There is no direct wire to the alternator as there is with the starter. Learning as I go.

I am trying to determine why my alternator voltage is so low and all voltages measured elsewhere are high ~12. I have confirmed (by swapping out and tetsting) that my volatges and fuses are correct in the Main fuse Box (just behind the battery) with the exception of the SBF holder labeled ABS. This should have 12 volts on one side as tested in my brother's subaru and I have the low voltage (same as the alternator) at this point.

I believe the problem lies in the 'under dash wiring' where the other fuse box is.

I removed and confirmed that the under dash fuse box and connections are good. I know at one time there was a car alarm on this thing and I am convinced it was a hack job. I'm a hacker myself but it's no fun playing with another hacker mess!

I am hoping these few symptoms will trigger some more thoughts and tips for me from you guys. Thanks for your help so far,

Matt

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:20 am

ok listen up lol

if the guy who installed the alarm tapped into the constant 12v going up to the key switch he may have used a "scotch lock" or a "T-tap" which if the wrong size is used you can cut most of the wired inside the cable. get under there and look around. we cant do that for you.

-Mike

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:53 am

I have spent a while testing wires under the dash and especially those feeding the ignition in the column. Do you think the alternator will only give ~2volts if the constant power wire to the ignition is cut?

I'll give it another go over and I hope that is the problem.

Thanks,

Matt

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:55 pm

I have a little update and a question...

I have 12 volts into my main fuse box (under hood) but now I only have 2 volts at SBF 4 and on the corrsponding bvlack and yellow stipped ignition wire. My battery dosen't drain - been at 12 volts for a month in this car. Where is the voltage going? (Key is not in ignition when testing but I have tried and it dosen't make a difference)

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Matt

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:38 am

might be some bad bad wiring somewhere....causing the voltage to drop like it is.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:56 pm

Yeah, I'm with Josh.

The wiring diagrams aren't making perfect sense to me, but...

What do you measure on both sides of the fusible link?

What do you measure at the positive terminal of the starter motor?

What do you measure on both sides of SBF-1, SBF-2, and SBF-3?

It looks like battery voltages goes directly to the starter, so you should get +12 there. It goes to the alternator and SBF-3 through the fusible link. Through the alternator cable it reaches SBF4 and 5.

carmat76 · Post by **carmat76** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:30 am

I finally had a little time tonight to troubleshoot ... I have narrowed down the problem a little more. I always have 12 volts at SBF 1 & 2 and at both sides of the fuseable link. There is always 12 volts at the starter. If I unplug the 3 wire connector (Blue, Black Yellow and Black Red) from the underside of the Main Fuse box (under hood) I get 12 volts at the alternator. If I plug those 3 wires in I get 2 volts at the alternator.

Ideas?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

sounds like a short of some kind.....you need to figure out where those wires come from/go to....

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:36 pm

Okay, this is weird...

But anyway:

You're talking about the three-inline-terminal connector?

The black/yellow wire comes from SBF-4 and feeds the ignition switch.
The black/red wire comes from SBF-3 and feeds fuses 10 (height control), 11 (locks), 12 (brake lights and horn), 19 (ABS), and 20 and 21 (both heater fan).
The blue wire comes from SBF-5 and feeds fuses 7 (rear defrost), 13 (radiator fan), and 14 (ECU and TCU).

So I guess the first thing to do is figure out which of the three is causing the problem. Pull out SBF-3, SBF-4, and SBF-5. The problem should go away. Then plug them in one at a time and see which one makes the problem happen. Then (if it's SBF-3 or SBF-4), pull the relevant fuses out from under the dash, and see if the problem goes away. Assuming it does, put them back in one at a time and figure out which one is causing it.

Then come back and tell us.

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'91 Legacy T Won't Start

'91 Legacy T Won't Start