Turbo Legacy owners with aftermarket turbos please read

[kelley]

1) ihi vf23
2)stromung turboback exhaust 2.5 in. cusco header, custom vishnu up pipe. custom intake pipeing w/open k&n air filter
3)yes
blitz fmic w/gda wrx pipeing
4)it fits very well.
5)15 psi
6) gready profec eo1
7)depends. at wot 15 psi I was reading about 11-12 on a/f until my fuel pump gave up. egt's depends on how fast the car is going. usually around 1200-1400 for fairly aggressive street driveing. (what ever that means)
most important is autronic smc.
gona add the walbro fuel pump and aeromotive fuel pressure regulator soon and maybe some nismo 770's

ot that's wierd the emoticons are haveing a mind of there own today.

[rsstiboy]

No piston or conrod upgrades. Seeing the amount of abuse the OE parts can take I have no reason to spend the money on less stable aftermarket parts. I have yet to see any damage to stock EJ22T internals (from high power)

Dont even mention DOHC conversions. The money it takes to do such a conversion is far better spent on improving the flow of the original. Ive done more research than has been posted (lazy to type) and the DOHC heads dont automatically increase power. The difference I see is seperate timing control over the valves (which I have seen NOONE do). The DOHC have more rotating mass and friction, you end up loosing power. Besides I would need to create custom ignition wires to fit the center mounted spark plugs. It doesnt help that the DOHC heads available dont have the correct bore.

I havnt decided yet if I want to perform the parralel fuel mod.

so what your saying is that SOHC is better than DOHC? then why does the JDM 2ltr legacy running 10psi have 200HP at the motor stock! and your 2.2ltr motor have 160HP stock? I have seen plenty of melted pistons in my time, its a worthwile upgrade, what I was suggesting is that if your going to change pistons, stick on a DOHC head while your at it. igniton is not a problem, I just upgraded mine yesterday to Bosch HEC716 coils and the difference is remarkable for a 3 hour job.

[rsstiboy]

Everyone seems to think the stock EJ22T heads are`nt good enough for the street---WRONG!!!

not saying there bad, i'm saying you'll get better results from DOHC head

[ciper]

I am saying that SOHC is better than DOHC stock for stock. The only DOHC heads available would be from a 2.5 liter NA engine or from the 02+ WRX. Just because there are more cams doesnt mean its automatically better. If a SOHC engine and DOHC engine had identicle cam profiles and all other components are equal the SOHC motor should produce more power.

For the WRX heads Id spend minimum 1000$ for the heads, not counting work to get them to fit. Id then need custom piston dish to match the head volume and machining to get the passages to line up. A new intake would be needed bringing along all the changed electronics and piping. Alot of the piping would be custom and Id have to rewire everything. This is the VERY short version. Basically in the end Id spend probably 3000 extra and have no way to be sure it would run from the stock ECU.

For 2.5 heads the cam profile would be incorrect. The bore would be larger so the flat area (cant remember the name) around the piston would be small. Id need custom pistons. It wouldnt have coolant and oil for the turbo. Id need another intake, along with electronics. Again Id end up spending 2500 extra with no gurantee the stock ECU could run it.

"why does the JDM 2ltr legacy running 10psi have 200HP at the motor stock! and your 2.2ltr motor have 160HP stock?"
Because one is JDM and one is USDM, we always have less power because of emissions and you forget we are running LESS boost and without an intercooler.

"I have seen plenty of melted pistons in my time"
In 2.2 liter engines? Even if not Id say the 2.0 liter guys with melted pistons had inproper tuning or a weaker designed piston. If you look around there are some stories of incredible boost levels (WITHOUT the right tuning fueling most of the time) on completely stock ej22t with 100k+ miles. I remember one person who ran 20 psi on the stock injectors/fuel pump without an intercooler and caused no permanent damage to the engine.

Did you forget we had NO turbo cars after the first generation turbo legacy up until the 02 WRX? (not counting previous generation GL/XT etc..). I dont think we EVER had an intercooled from 1968-2002!
Our engine choices where 2.2NA only MY90
2.2NA 2.2T MY91
2.2NA 2.2T 3.3NA MY92
1.8NA 2.2NA 2.2T 3.3NA MY93
1.8NA 2.2NA 2.2T 3.3NA MY94
1.8NA 2.2NA 2.2T 3.3NA MY95
1.8NA 2.2NA 2.5NA* 3.3NA MY96
1.8NA 2.2NA 2.5NA 3.3NA MY97
2.2NA 2.5NA MY98
2.2NA 2.5NA MY99
2.5NA 2.2NA** MY00
2.5NA 2.2NA** MY01
2.5NA 2.0T*** 3.0NA*** MY02
2.5NA 2.0T*** 3.0NA*** MY02

Only the Impreza got the 1.8NA. Only the outback got the 3.0NA. Only SVX got 3.3NA.
*weak version
** impreza only, outback only
*** outback only
The 2001 outback was the first to get "automatic" DCCD in the 4eat VTD H6. The 02 WRX also got this "automatic" DCCD in the 4eat. It wasnt until the 04 STI that we got a 6 speed and a real DCCD. Also we NEVER got a front LSD until the STI.

As a side note, from 99 on the 2.2 has 142HP and 149TQ! Isnt the later headgasket about half the thickness? Meaning we can also bump our compression and at least get 137 out of our NA engines?

[rsstiboy]

If a SOHC engine and DOHC engine had identicle cam profiles and all other components are equal the SOHC motor should produce more power

WTF! how does that work? identical cam profiles = better breathing on a DOHC head, if SOHC was better why would they spend the extra money it costs to produce a DOHC? and 20 psi is the absolute max limit of any EJ pistons and conrods not to mention head gasket, thats if you can supply enough fuel to it, what I was saying is that if you were to build it up properley, then the best way to do it would be to get forged pistons and rods, and because you are changing the pistons you would be better off sticking on the DOHC heads, get my drift..... along with engine management, fuel upgrades and steel head gaskets and head studs with a FMIC then pump into it 30psi on a nice big GT30 turbo

[scottzg]

Ciper is right.
If they have the same profile, they will breathe the same, both are 4 valve per cylander engines. The same valves will be open for the same duration, the sohc doing it with fewer reciprocating parts.
However, dohc will outperform sohc when both are tuned closer to their limit. Half as many springs pushing on each cam allow the cam to be smaller in diameter and the springs to be larger, and so it can rev'ed higher. This is the reason manufacturers use dohc. For tuners, dohc is also preferred because intake and exhaust tuning can be done with an adjustable cam gear, rather than having to grind a custom cam.

For ciper, who is building a broad powerband engine, this topend performance is not so important.

For a manufacturer who is not making a really high performance engine, sohc is better. The early usdm 2.5rs used the dohc heads. When these were having issues, they switched to a sohc head. It's very difficult to tell if you are driving a sohc or a dohc, i sure cant. The rev limit didn't change because the cam profile and the springs didn't change.

[legacy92ej22t]

so what your saying is that SOHC is better than DOHC? then why does the JDM 2ltr legacy running 10psi have 200HP at the motor stock! and your 2.2ltr motor have 160HP stock?

Because one is JDM and one is USDM, we always have less power because of emissions and you forget we are running LESS boost and without an intercooler.

That's soo true (except for the USDM Impreza STI of course). The less boost, no IC is right on ciper.

rsstiboy I understand your argument and everything but the above quote of yours was so far off base that it left me scratching my head. If you take the air/water IC off your RS and the VF12 off your RS and put them on the USDM Legacy turbo (EJ22T) and run the same boost, the EJ22T will have more power no if's, and's or but's about it.

If we here in the states had DOHC heads that were bolt on and didn't require custom pistons and stuff, I'm sure a lot of us would probably go with them. But since we don't and the substantial money required to do a DOHC setup on our EJ22T is so large, most (including myself) feel that that money is much better spent else where. I would rather spend the money to have my heads and cams worked on and still have enough left over for all sorts of other mods like a bigger turbo, suspension, brakes, whatever.

I feel the EJ22G is hands down the best block Subaru has ever built and I can live with the fact that it came with SOHC heads (I also like the fact I can throw a timing belt without wrecking the valve train ).

[MY99 2.5GT]

You can't really compare a 2.2 running 8psi stock with a VF11 the size of a computer fan. If you look at the flow map on that turbo you will see that it reacts pretty snappy off the line but has little to no headroom for top end flow efficiency. On a smaller displacement engine that same turbo is capable of running higher boost and won't run out of flow efficiency nearly as fast yielding the ability to produce better top end power numbers but won't be as quick off the line.


legacy92ej22t - I agree that the EJ22G block is the best subaru has ever offered. Funny it can be found only in a legacy from the early 90s running a sad 8psi and only making 160hp:)

I'm really wondering what is the biggest turbo you guys have heard someone running on a stock bottom end 2.2 turbo motor?
I was looking at a Garrett GT32 but even though Garrett recommends this turbo on their site for up to a 2.2 litre motor it seems a little fat on the flow map. I have been looking at the VF37 (current JDM STI twin scroll turbo) but am affraid I will run out of compressor efficiency up high.

You guys running the Mitsu 16G turbos. What are the power characteristics you are seeing with them? Quick spool unimpressive top end, or a little slow on the windup but a kick in the pants up high?

Thanks
Brad

[FrmRgz2Rchz]

Seemed laggy when it was first installed. Of course, I'm comparing it to a RHB5, which spooled every time I touched the gas pedal. It gets full boost between 3000 and 3500 and pulls hard until 6000. It doesn't produce less power after 6 grand, but it feels like the power levels out. With an efficient exhaust and intake it will pull hard past redline.

[boostjunkie]

When do you want to take a ride so you can see for yourself?

[MY99 2.5GT]

Excellent! Thats exactly where I am looking for the power to kick in and hold to redline.

Has anyone heard of running a Link+ with their turbo Legacy? If not what programmable ECU's have been noted for successful use with this engine?

Brad

[MY99 2.5GT]

Jason - Thats right, I forgot your running a 16G. I wish I could arrange something this weekend but my wife and I will be away. I will definitely keep in touch. I want to take some pictures and maybe some measurements of key areas.

[boostjunkie]

Not a problem. Just let me know when you have some free time and we could arrange a time to meet.

[MY99 2.5GT]

Sounds good I will hit you up when the time comes.

OK forget the Link + question. I am not worried about running an intercooler sprayer so it looks like a regular link will most likely be my ecu of choice. Unfortunitley I don't think the 92 Legacy Turbo ECU wiring harness is the same as a 95 Impreza L's so its looking like I will simply have to do a complete rewire unless someone has comparative information on the above specified wiring harnesses.

THanks
BRad

[rsstiboy]

ok, after doing some research on the heads, unless you have a late model 'MY98+ SOHC head it will not flow as much as a early model DOHC head, you can however get the SOHC ported so that it will flow as much as the DOHC head, so stock for stock there is a difference, however ciper is right, it can be made to produce alot more power, although imagine if you ported a DOHC head!? I agree with you all, the closed decked 2.2ltr is the best block that subaru ever built, thats why guys over here do 2.2 strokers on our closed deck 2ltr blocks, then we put on MY98 DOHC heads.

back on topic though, i'm very happy with my TD05, I'm getting full boost by 3200rpm with FMIC and goes hard all the way to redline, and thats only on a safe 13psi at the moment, can't wait to crank it up to 19psi.......

[ciper]

Didnt realize my post would cause such an uproar.

The 2.5 DOHC heads allow more total air through, problem is they are NA specific cams. Look at the turbo 2.5 guys dyno charts. They hit a peak amount of power and any more increase in boost only effects that small range, they can never get a totally smooth curve.

The only DOHC heads that would be worth using are the 02+ WRX heads. These could be modified to fit along with the intake and electronics but the cost would be high. You could spend less money and extract the same power from the EJ22T SOHC heads.

A 2.2 stroker is not the same. The us 2.2 block is stronger than any other built to this date.

[vrg3]

The us 2.2 block is stronger than any other built to this date.

The EJ22G block is stronger than the EJ20G block? I thought aside from the displacement they were about the same.

[ciper]

Ill have to refind the information I had. Off the top of my head I know that after 94 many of the EJ20G where open deck.

[vrg3]

I thought the first open-deck turbo EJ block was the EJ20K... Doesn't seem sensible to use the exact same designation for two completely different blocks, does it?

[ciper]

EJ20G type A and type B are closed while type C is open. (not counting RA engines of course)

EJ20K type D-G are all open deck.

[vrg3]

Ah, gotcha.

So aren't EJ20G types A and B at least as strong as the USDM EJ22G?

[ciper]

Not sure now, Ive read both are stronger than each other

Here are two somewhat related threads with good info (regarding ej22t)
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... did=325790

This one speaks of running the STOCK EJ22T at 20 and 30 PSI and this qoute about the EJ22T "The T.Leg short block is made of a different aluminum than all the other open deck blocks. It is a sandcasted "medium pressure diecast aluminum crankcase...utilized to secure the higher rigidity necessary with a closed deck." (SAE technical document #890471)."
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... did=352136

[JasonGrahn]

Has anyone heard of running a Link+ with their turbo Legacy? If not what programmable ECU's have been noted for successful use with this engine?

tsk tsk tsk.. I knew i'd have to hop into this thread sooner or later.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... dalone+ecu
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... dalone+ecu
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... dalone+ecu

edit: add this too: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=14917

[rsstiboy]

A 2.2 stroker is not the same. The us 2.2 block is stronger than any other built to this date.

its the same block at the JDM94 wrx 2ltr block!! just that you have a longer stroke.......

[ciper]

Not correct, quit spreading that information!

EJ22T bore 96.9 Stroke 75
EJ20T bore 92 Stroke 75

The ONLY engine with different stroke is the EJ25 at 79