Problems intercooling?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:15 am

Will I run into computer problems after intercooling?

I have been thinking about it, and a FMIC seems like a better option, economically, than running a high volume TMIC (both of which would have to require fabbing to fit). But I want to know if running a FMIC with stock everything but exhaust (3" TBE, one cat), is going to mess up the computer and cause the car to run like crap.

I don't think it would, but I'd like some insight.

Also, when I replace the DP, what do I do with the 02 Sensor? What would I do with them if I ran cattless? I'd like to not have a CEL on all the time or have crappy performance because of it.

Thanks!

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:52 am

The ECU will have to add more fuel to compensate for more air but otherwise there should be no reason for a problem.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:10 am

But I won't hit my fuel cut, will I?

I was hoping to run ~ 11psi on the stock ECU. I'll do fuel control a bit later on, but I might just wait until I get standalone.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:19 am

What altitude you at? Fuel cut is caused by total pressure in the manifold, not the volume of air. 11 psi should be fine.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:25 am

Sea Level + 1,000 feet. Sea Level at home, school at ~ 900 feet.

Post by **DLC** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:12 pm

With the stock turbo and an FMIC you should be able to run 11-13PSI (get a vrg3/ciper fcd!) with not much problem. The setup on these cars is simple enough that when the car sees that it needs more fuel, it adds more and doesn't have to jump through some of the hoops that the OBDII cars do.

As for the O2 sensor, see your other post on the DP. You will keep the O2, but the cat can go. You can't get a CEL on these cars when removing the cat because there's no check for it.

Personally, i'm looking at water injection instead of intercooling. For the money, i'd really urge you to look into an air/water setup because they're more compact, similar in complexity and much more efficient. There's a place in Colorado that makes extremely nice setups.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:48 pm

How much do A/W setups go for? The Air-Air setup I was looking at would be right around 1k installed or so.

I want the intercooler to be able to handle my power goals, and I figured Air-Air setups are used by so many people for a reason.

I don't know how I feel about water injection. I know lots of people who do it on supercharged Jeep's, but it doesn't seem like an intercooler replacement to me.

Thanks for the heads up about the 02 sensor and such.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:56 pm

I agree it normally isnt an intercooler replacement. Not saying he shouldnt do it though, it would be interesting.

1000 installed? Was that a gold plated unit

Im guessing my AWIC setup to be less than 900 including a custom water tank and two replacement batteries (relocated to inside the vehicle)

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:13 pm

How much power can the air-water IC's support?

Not gold plated, but Black Anodized possibly. I wasn't given a concrete price. I was guessing 1k as an estimate.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:18 pm

Well there are aftermarket heat exchangers that can handle any amount of power. If your speaking of the units from the overseas legacy then Ive heard 300-350.

Post by **DLC** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:36 pm

Those a/w setups can cost upwards of $3k, but the last time i heard a price was at least six months ago. Perhaps with the burgeoning WRX/STI market, they've got more production and the prices have dropped.

If i find out any information, i'll let you know.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:38 pm

DLC, which are you speaking of?

Post by **DLC** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:00 pm

The one reffered to in this topic:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=9180

Here's a pic that Al sent me from a turbo'd 03 Legacy:

You can see the somewhat large radioator up front, and the blue coolant lines going to and from it and the heat exchanger on the throttle body. It's pretty small, fits really nicely and with a radiator of that size and a good pump, it should do a much better job than an air unit under nearly all situations.

It is expensive.

Dave

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:24 pm

For 3k, I'll get a FMIC, lol.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:25 pm

I wouldnt, a 3k AWIC setup would kill any air water setup no matter the conditions.

The only reason people go with an air to air unit is laziness/cheapness. The water setup is more complex needing pump, tank, fluid and an extra heat exchanger.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:30 pm

ciper wrote:I wouldnt, a 3k AWIC setup would kill any air water setup no matter the conditions.

Yea, but a 3k AWIC will also cost 3x as much as a 1k FMIC. I guess I phrased what I said wrong.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:31 pm

Allright then:

The 3k AWIC would give 15x the performance as the 1k AAIC.

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:32 pm

but you can use some type of injection on an air to air front mount setup.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:34 pm

"you can use some type of injection on an air to air front mount setup"

What do you mean?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:38 pm

ciper wrote:"you can use some type of injection on an air to air front mount setup"

What do you mean?

Alcohol/water spray to lower the core temperature.

Simply put, 3k is not financially feasable. Espically since I can get an FMIC that'll handle all of the power I'll be making.

If an AAIC is good enough for this 800WHP Supra, I think I'll be OK running less than 400 at the crank.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:46 pm

Your logic is flawed.

You could use the same "Alcohol/water spray to lower the core temperature" technique on the Air/Water setup for one thing.

You gain far more performance by injecting the Alcohol/water into the intake tract.

You cant assume that because some other 800HP car uses it that it was the best way to go. Ive seen a 1000HP car run with no air filter, does that mean I should do the same?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:56 pm

ciper wrote:You cant assume that because some other 800HP car uses it that it was the best way to go.

But it was a reasonable way to go. I don't see any need to spend $3,000 to do something that a $1k intercooler will do exactly the same thing. I don't need to be able to have an exchanger capable of handling 1,000hp. I need one that will handle 400hp. If a front mount cooler will do that, why spend thrice the cost for a different unit? Size isn't an issue, so that rules that out.

I guess I fail to see the need for a $3000 intercooler, when a $1000 intercooler will do the same job. What does the AWIC offer over the AAIC that justifies the 2k price increase?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:09 am

FAT! Did I ever say to get a 3000 intercooler? The 3000$ awic setup could support way more that what you need, meaning you can use a less expensive unit.

The Legacy AWIC cores can be had for 150-300. A pump for 50-150. Front heat exchanger for 50-300. Add lines and a tank.

Besides, its FAR easier to plumb water lines to the front of the car than it is to run intake piping!

kelley · Post by **kelley** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:15 am

no I was talking more about injecting the intercooler with freeon.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:18 am

It would run out quickly and hurt the enviroment. Besides, injecting water gives more benefits besides cooling the intake. It lets you lean the car out ,produce MORE power and reduce knock while cleaning the engine all at the same time.

I didnt want to give my exact prices, but because Im being frugal and slowly building it my intercooler setup will only cost me about 200$ cash when its all done.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Problems intercooling?

Problems intercooling?