I don't know if I'd want to put that much heat there to weld it, but it may just work and get you by. Keep in mind that unless you plan on leaving off the plastic covers or destroying them when it comes time fo the next belt change, you won't be able to do the job with the pulley welded on. Maybe time for a turbo transplant? Actually, a regular engine for this should be cheap. Jason has a thread about putting a 2.5 liter in, too. Seemed relatively easy. Replacing the crankshaft would be more trouble and probably not much cheaper than a new engine - I've seen EJ22s as low as $250, though they seem to hang around $400 around here. It's rotten that the rest of the engine becomes essentially scrap, but whatareyougonnado? You could keep it for spares, but there's probably not many major parts you'd need. Good luck.
Steve
HELP - Pulley problems
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
-
evolutionmovement
- Knowledgeable
- Posts: 9809
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
- Location: Beverly, MA
All I need is for my car to last me another three years, if I could get 50k out of it I'd be happy. In three years I'll have my engineering degree and a nice new legacy for the road and a good older legacy redone for rally 
. I can't really justifying upgrading the engine since money is definately a concern as is the condition of the rest of my car. I don't want to start overstresssing the tranny and have to start chasing weak links. When you say a regular engine should be cheap, how cheap and where is a good place to get a quality engine that I can trust? Thanks.
Lee
. I can't really justifying upgrading the engine since money is definately a concern as is the condition of the rest of my car. I don't want to start overstresssing the tranny and have to start chasing weak links. When you say a regular engine should be cheap, how cheap and where is a good place to get a quality engine that I can trust? Thanks.Lee
-
evolutionmovement
- Knowledgeable
- Posts: 9809
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
- Location: Beverly, MA
I don't know anyone local to you, but there are plenty of decent junk yards that have low mile engines for I'd say usually about $400 here. Anything missing on it you could use from your engine. Make sure they have a warranty and ask if it has been compression and leak down tested. If they offer a warranty, there's a better chance they actually did it. I bought a turbo engine with turbo for $750, so a regular N/A shouldn't be bad. However, if you were to get your engine back together (might as well try welding as you have nothing to lose, right?) it should easily get you another 60k miles. Just change the water pump and maybe some oil seals if you want to be safe.
Steve
Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
I'll start calling around and getting prices. If I weld or permantely attatch my pulley to the crank, is this going to make swapping out engines or even cranks, if it turns out that is the better way to go, difficult? I have been looking in my manual and it looks like there is no way to replace the crank without pulling the engine, this correct?
Oh, I should have asked earlier, does anyone have a spec on what the diameter of the crank shaft at the pulley should be? I'm thinking about that JB weld possibly, as Steve put it - what have I got to lose, and I'm trying to figure out how much clearance I have to work with or how much slop I have to fix. Thanks again.
Lee
BTW. Got a price quote on a crank, 300. So just replacing it has been taken off the list. It's either a fix or a new engine at this point I think.
Lee
BTW. Got a price quote on a crank, 300. So just replacing it has been taken off the list. It's either a fix or a new engine at this point I think.
-
evolutionmovement
- Knowledgeable
- Posts: 9809
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
- Location: Beverly, MA
I know you said its off the books now, but FYI replacing the crank means splitting the engine in half. You're pretty much disassembling everything but the valvetrain.
Steve
Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
-
Lefty42303
- In Neutral
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:46 pm
Lee,
From what I am reading the crank is worn badly near the notched timing pullet but is in better shape at the end.
If it were my car I would replace the timing belt, idlers, seals and water pump. At reassembly I would epoxy the accessory drive pulley back in place with a new key. I think the accessory drive pulley will tighten flush to the notched timing pulley with the accessory pulley bolt. This should help hold the pulley straight. I would put the final bolt in as tight as I could get it. When done I would run the accessory belts as loose as possible without squealing.
If the epoxy holds you are good to go for 60,000 miles+.
Good luck and keep posting what you are doing with it. We are all interested.
Jim
From what I am reading the crank is worn badly near the notched timing pullet but is in better shape at the end.
If it were my car I would replace the timing belt, idlers, seals and water pump. At reassembly I would epoxy the accessory drive pulley back in place with a new key. I think the accessory drive pulley will tighten flush to the notched timing pulley with the accessory pulley bolt. This should help hold the pulley straight. I would put the final bolt in as tight as I could get it. When done I would run the accessory belts as loose as possible without squealing.
If the epoxy holds you are good to go for 60,000 miles+.
Good luck and keep posting what you are doing with it. We are all interested.
Jim
The plan -
After much looking, head scratching, thinking, etc. my father and I have a plan. We are going to leave all the timing belt gears and tensioners and such in place. Going to pull the radiator and the AC coils out to give some room to work with. I am also going to take off the power steering pump, alternator, and AC compressor. I am also going to take out the plugs so that we can turn the engine over easy while we are aligning the pulley. The timing gear face is in good shape and hasn't been worn so we will use it to keep the pulley square to the axis of the crankshaft. We are going to put the pulley on the shaft and use a hard stiff spring between the bolt and the pulley intially and tighten it up so that the pulley is sitting against the timing gear good and tight. Why the spring? The face of the pulley where the flange of the bolt rests is worn and is not longer plum and true so by using a spring we can make sure that there is even pressure being applied to the pulley all the way around the crank but still allow some movement with the proper perssasion (a.k.a. pin and hammer). Then my father and I are going to set up a dial indicator and rotate the crank around and make sure that the pulley is centered on the axis of the shaft. This is going to take some time of rotating and tapping but once we are satisfied that the pulley is on square and centered we are going to work as much JB weld around the crank and between the ID of the pulley as we can. The pulley is worn enough, as is the crank, that we should be able to use some picks and do this. After letting it sit for a couple of days we will take off the bolt and spring and put the bolt back in, we might end up using a spacer to get around uneveness of the face or we might secure it another way. We are also thinking about taping the two nice 1/4 inch holes in the timing gear and then drill corresponding holes through the pulley and use two bolts to hold the pulley on rather than the original bolt. This should then keep the pulley on in proper alignment. I have decided that I don't need my AC all the much so I am going to just leave it off and not put it back on. This should reduce the power that the pulley has to transmitt (and consequently the force that the JB and everything has to hold) significantly and hopefully decrease the chance of the fix failing down the road (pun intended). This should all start this week when I have a chance to get away from college and get back to the house for a little while. What do you all think? I'm pretty optimistic that we can pull this off and as always, I'm open to suggestions and ideas.
Lee
After much looking, head scratching, thinking, etc. my father and I have a plan. We are going to leave all the timing belt gears and tensioners and such in place. Going to pull the radiator and the AC coils out to give some room to work with. I am also going to take off the power steering pump, alternator, and AC compressor. I am also going to take out the plugs so that we can turn the engine over easy while we are aligning the pulley. The timing gear face is in good shape and hasn't been worn so we will use it to keep the pulley square to the axis of the crankshaft. We are going to put the pulley on the shaft and use a hard stiff spring between the bolt and the pulley intially and tighten it up so that the pulley is sitting against the timing gear good and tight. Why the spring? The face of the pulley where the flange of the bolt rests is worn and is not longer plum and true so by using a spring we can make sure that there is even pressure being applied to the pulley all the way around the crank but still allow some movement with the proper perssasion (a.k.a. pin and hammer). Then my father and I are going to set up a dial indicator and rotate the crank around and make sure that the pulley is centered on the axis of the shaft. This is going to take some time of rotating and tapping but once we are satisfied that the pulley is on square and centered we are going to work as much JB weld around the crank and between the ID of the pulley as we can. The pulley is worn enough, as is the crank, that we should be able to use some picks and do this. After letting it sit for a couple of days we will take off the bolt and spring and put the bolt back in, we might end up using a spacer to get around uneveness of the face or we might secure it another way. We are also thinking about taping the two nice 1/4 inch holes in the timing gear and then drill corresponding holes through the pulley and use two bolts to hold the pulley on rather than the original bolt. This should then keep the pulley on in proper alignment. I have decided that I don't need my AC all the much so I am going to just leave it off and not put it back on. This should reduce the power that the pulley has to transmitt (and consequently the force that the JB and everything has to hold) significantly and hopefully decrease the chance of the fix failing down the road (pun intended). This should all start this week when I have a chance to get away from college and get back to the house for a little while. What do you all think? I'm pretty optimistic that we can pull this off and as always, I'm open to suggestions and ideas.
Lee
-
cbose
- In Neutral
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:04 am
- Location: Currently, New Zealand. Usually, Canada
As you are open for suggestions --- here is one.
Instead of trying to pin the pulley to the timing gear, or maybe in addition, consider the idea to use a dowel pin on the pulley after you get the JB weld in. This was already suggested in this thread. The idea is, you need something to keep the pulley from rotating on the shaft. JB will fill the gaps, but it will not bond the pulley to the shaft. Once the pulley starts to rotate on the shaft, it's game over, again!
After the JB sets up, take a drill and drill into the pulley and the shaft from the front, directly along the joint. The drill is PARALLEL with the crankshaft, not perpendicular like a set screw. Then drive in a mild steel rod down the hole. This makes a shaft key into new metal. Some crank pulleys are attached this way from the factory. Mercedes for example. Finish off by replacing the crank bolt and torque to suggested specs. Since this is a terminal fix, I would add some permanent loctite to the bolt and hope for the best.
You may want to experiment with drills and rod size to get a decent drive fit.
Instead of trying to pin the pulley to the timing gear, or maybe in addition, consider the idea to use a dowel pin on the pulley after you get the JB weld in. This was already suggested in this thread. The idea is, you need something to keep the pulley from rotating on the shaft. JB will fill the gaps, but it will not bond the pulley to the shaft. Once the pulley starts to rotate on the shaft, it's game over, again!
After the JB sets up, take a drill and drill into the pulley and the shaft from the front, directly along the joint. The drill is PARALLEL with the crankshaft, not perpendicular like a set screw. Then drive in a mild steel rod down the hole. This makes a shaft key into new metal. Some crank pulleys are attached this way from the factory. Mercedes for example. Finish off by replacing the crank bolt and torque to suggested specs. Since this is a terminal fix, I would add some permanent loctite to the bolt and hope for the best.
You may want to experiment with drills and rod size to get a decent drive fit.
1991 Legacy VZ wagon,
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
-
Lefty42303
- In Neutral
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:46 pm
Lee,
Sounds like a plan to me. I like the idea of the parallel pind between the cran & pulley. I have one more suggestion. Loctite makes a product called Quickmetal. It is designed to repair damaged keyways and shafts. It is machineable and sandable. I've used it to sucessfully repair worn keyways in industry. You can get it at a bearing house like Motion Industries or Applied Industrial.
Jim
Sounds like a plan to me. I like the idea of the parallel pind between the cran & pulley. I have one more suggestion. Loctite makes a product called Quickmetal. It is designed to repair damaged keyways and shafts. It is machineable and sandable. I've used it to sucessfully repair worn keyways in industry. You can get it at a bearing house like Motion Industries or Applied Industrial.
Jim
I like the sound of that Quickmetal, do you know how long it takes that to set up and cure, working time? I also like the idea of the parallel pin, hadn't thought of that, sounds a bit easier than trying to put pins into the timing gear and since I won't be running the AC there will be minimal power being applied to the pulley.
Lee
Lee
-
Lefty42303
- In Neutral
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:46 pm
Okay, today I'm finally going to be free to get out to the house and get some work done. One quick question if you all don't mind. How is the best way to bleed my AC so that I can remove it and get it out of the way, and as I said before, I'm not too worried about putting it back on after the fix (which btw, is there a market for good AC units, coils and compressor?). Thanks, hopefully by next weekend I'll be driving.
Lee
Lee
I believe the only legal way to bleed AC is to have a professional do it, someone that can properly dispose of the r12 or r134a or whatever.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
well if you just happen to turn the wrong bolt and some r12 just happens to vent to atmosphere.....there's not much you can do about it....
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
just accidetnally drop a knife into the rubber ac line and call it a day 
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
this bolt might be located on either one of the lines going to the a/c compressor which hold them to the compressor......sorry I'm not clearer....skid542 wrote:Would there be a place to find this hypothetical bolt that could just happen to be turned?
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
entirelyturbo
- quasi-mod-o
- Posts: 6000
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
- Location: Tampa, FL
Well I got everything pulled out and have room to work with now. I must say that I like how Subaru had designed everything as integral units. My dad and I are still undecided on just how we are going to secure the pulley to the shaft, just a matter of deciding on which method to go with. However, here are the pics of I have to work with.
