Heads removal

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:28 pm

Have anybody ever removed the heads from the engine without taking the engine out?

This is the story...got the knock sensor and wanted to change it...took out the intake manifold after clearing air intake and alternator and AC compresor I managed to take out the intake. During a brake I took out the engine oil deep stick and surprize...NO OIL. Where the heck is it???
2 weeks ago was the last time that I checed it and it was OK...not even a drip lower the Full. Since February when I got the car, I checked the oil regularly. Last week I wanted to change it couse I allready put 3000 Km on it...but I thought I should just leave it in there for another mil since it has Duralube in it.

So...I want to take out the heads to check the head gasket. I hope...I really hope that's the couse. I have no oil in the coolant...the AT fluid level didn't come up I haven't noticed any dripping. At least not relevantly big. The valve seals....they could not lose so much oil in 2 weeks.

Any ideea would be helpfull right now

Man....and yesterday I just bit the shit out of two of my work colegues.
A 2000 Civic SI and an 2004 Acura RSX type S. Both manual...performance exaust...cold air intake, rims with GOOD tires, body packeges and everything. Man I felt GOOD. My stock rusted station wagon on crapy Bridgstones Potenza that woths 2500 CAD bited 2 cars that are worth 50000 CAD????
Any ways...back in the garage...I have to fix the Coolant tank,...the niple on the lower back just broke on me...and I just fixed the top one 2 weeks ago or so...

Thanks guys.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:39 pm

You should just open the drain plug and see how much oil comes out. But hell, you might as well just drain it all and change the filter. You can remove the heads without removing the engine. Some of the headbolts though you have to work with to get them out.

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:48 pm

Yeah I thought so...But I just needed an "authorized" opinion.

Yea...I am going to leak all the oil, as I said...I need to change it anyways.
Thanks man.

madmonkey · Post by **madmonkey** » Sat May 01, 2004 8:14 pm

Hey there, I did remove my heads on my 90 Legacy ej22N/A it was a real pain but can be done. Just remove nuts from front engine mounts (to allow some "upward" movement of engine) remove accessories, ps pump, alt etc... to allow access. As viewed from rear the right side head is much easier to get out then left, as head bolts are way long... jack engine up slightly to give clearance for ratchet on bolts (and bolt removal) Good Luck!

ps, its probably easier to just pull the engine... but if your like me, then your a glutton for punishment!

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Sun May 02, 2004 1:43 am

Probably I'm just gona give it another chance for a couple of weeks before I take it all apart. I am gona change the oil and watch carefully to see what's gona happen. I am gonna presure wash it although I am very scared of doing that. After that I'll see what's going on. Leaks or whatever. I don't really have the money to change the head gaskets even if they are not broken.
Thank you

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:41 am

umm oil dissapearing has what to do with your head gaskets? either you have a serious leak SOMEWHERE ELSE or you are burning that much due to bad rings which you would notice when you drive by the blue cloud following you around. Dont waste your time with the head gasket.

-Mike

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Sun May 02, 2004 8:43 am

well, if you actually have to pull the heads, do it in the car, versus pulling the engine. Lots less work. To pull the heads you only have to remove alot less bolts and hoses. Not not mention no engine hoist. It is still a bitch and you MUST own a torque wrench for the head bolts.

Point is, I have done both. Easier to remove heads in car. Major bitch though.!!!!! Driver side head requires alot of engine hoist and cussing. But it works.

Good luck

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:13 pm

Thanks for advice douglas vincent

magicmike

umm oil dissapearing has what to do with your head gaskets?

I experienced this with at least 2 cars. Usually the gasket brakes arround the coolant ducts. And the coolant gets in the oil pan. Or the gasket brakes around oil ducts and the oil gets in the coolant tank. But there are times when nither happens. Not even the gasket to brake around a cilinder and you lose compresion (that's usual too). The gasket brakes in such a manner that the oil gets in the cilinder and it gets burned.
On the other hand...I don't know forsure if this can happen at our cars. As soon as put the intake manifold back on the engine I am gonna check the compresion again. First time that I checked it was 147 psi for the 1 cillinder, I think, and 152 or smth for the others.
I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for the help.

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:25 pm

I dont mean to sound like an A-hole. All I'm saying is that there are only two places the oil can go, which you just stated. Both places do not require you taking off the heads to check so it seems pretty dumb to take off the heads.

-Mike

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:35 pm

No ofence don;t worry....as I said...I never took thees of at a Legacy...and I don;t know for sure...but with other cars it happened.
If you are sure...thanks for letting me know. LESS WORK

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:53 pm

you dont need an engine hoist at all. I haven't moved the engine at all and removed both heads. just is harder on the driver side.

petridish38 · Post by **petridish38** » Sun May 02, 2004 4:55 pm

minoru wrote:As soon as put the intake manifold back on the engine I am gonna check the compresion again.

If you are putting the intake manifold back on the engine just to check the compression, you don't have to....

Here is a picture of the block for as long as the bandwidth will last (unless someone wants to host)
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/subaru/ima ... nblock.jpg

You can see that the oil runs through the two passages at the bottom and the hole on the top left. The cylinders are totally surrounded by coolant, so it would be unlikely that oil is getting into your cylinders by means of a faulty head gasket. It could be your rings or very bad valve guide seals... just a few ideas...

Andrew

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon May 03, 2004 1:59 am

petridish38 wrote:Here is a picture of the block for as long as the bandwidth will last (unless someone wants to host)

http://thawa.net/images/legacy/petridish/cleanblock.jpg

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Mon May 03, 2004 10:50 pm

note: not a turbo block

guidom12345 · Post by **guidom12345** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:08 am

When I pulled the heads on my 2.2L it was a pain in the ass. I think you had to remember to put the bolts back in the head before you put the heads back on. I remember I had to jack up the engine in order to either get some of the bolts out or pull the head. I made the mistake of putting a jack under the oil pan and I believe I put a block of wood between the jack and the pan. I ended up with a bent pan. I woud use a lift next time, but I would still use a jack if neccesary.

guidom12345 · Post by **guidom12345** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:29 am

When I pulled the heads on my 2.2L it was a pain in the ass. I think you had to remember to put the bolts back in the head before you put the heads back on. I remember I had to jack up the engine in order to either get some of the bolts out or pull the head. I made the mistake of putting a jack under the oil pan and I believe I put a block of wood between the jack and the pan. I ended up with a bent pan. I woud use a lift next time, but I would still use a jack if neccesary.

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:58 pm

I think we should, each, specify what engine we're talking about.

From what I get 'till now:
1) 2.2 turbo or nonturbo.....it's a pain to take them out...but you can do it

2) 2.0 engines...it's much easier to take them off.

If I'm wrong correct me...but this is what I understand from what you guys are saying.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue May 04, 2004 3:16 pm

I would think it'd be the otherway around, since our heads are smaller what with them only being sohc and not dohc like most of the 2.0's. but then again I havent removed a dohc head.

minoru · Post by **minoru** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:43 pm

I donno....but people with ej22...said it's a pain.

Thawa said it's easy...his is an LS.

Let's make a pole

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:52 pm

yeah, it's a pain, but I'd think taking a small object out of a tight space would be easier than taking a larger object out of the same tight space. but like was said before I've never done dohc heads so I wouldnt know

petridish38 · Post by **petridish38** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:53 pm

I have done it with the engine in the car... Its not that bad, there are just like 2 head bolts that you really have to work with. The Haynes manual tells you to use a block of wood on the oil pan to jack up the engine which is what I did with mine and it turned out fine... just make sure that you disconnect everything that could interfere with the engine movement.

I also have an LS, but I dont think it matters.

If I were to take the heads off again, I would probably do it the same way with the engine in the car.

Andrew

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