Stroker Woes. HELP!

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:52 pm

OK:

So I send off my engine to the machine shop a while back... I get it back, with a EJ25 crank and rods installed, sold to me by a fellow BBS member. All new seals, bearings, gaskets, a few new sensors, rebuilt thermostat, oil pump... whole shbang. We have the engine (EJ22NA) installed now and the darn thing will not start. The machine shop put autolite plugs in, so I replaced them with NGK V powers and NGK wires(optima redtop as well). Still nothing. The car will crank, but wont start. I posted another thread, thinking it was the knock sensor. It wasnt. I am running out of ideas and am very frustrated. My local mechanic, who is a friend of my father, is confused as well.

I need suggestions.

The only thing we can think of is the timing is somehow affected by the new crank and rods.

By the way, the pistons are new... but stock EJ22.

HELP!!!!

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:45 pm

Have you checked the compression of the newly assembled engine? It's theoretically possible that it's simply not sealing right.

Also, you might want to check the cambelt to make sure everything's lined up correctly.

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:57 pm

Compression is good and the mechanic made sure that the belts were correct and aligned. Is there a sensor I might be missing or need replaced?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:11 pm

The cam and crank angle sensors are worth examining. If you have a good way to you might try swapping in a known-good pair.

Do you get any combustion at all?

A bad MAF sensor or coolant temperature sensor could make it get the wrong amount of fuel, which would make starting difficult or impossible.

You might try starting with the TPS disconnected, or with the MAF sensor disconnected, just to see what happens.

As for missing sensors, these are the essential things in the engine bay that connect to the ECU, as far as I can remember:

Ignitor
Injectors
Crank angle sensor
Cam angle sensor
MAF sensor
Water temperature sensor
TPS
IAC valve

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:41 pm

just a question, why did you NOT rebuild it with forged parts?

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:10 am

these may seem like two inane questions but you did not address them.

First off, got gas? I have worked on two cars over the years where we could not start the damn things because there was no gas in the fuel tank. So make sure you are not low or anything. Then of course check to see if the injectors are actually squirting fuel.

Second, got spark. Nothing is going to work at all without spark. I have saved a few cars from the junk yard by just find the ignition problem.

Good luck

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:01 pm

1: Gas. Put in a half tank at the shop. 93 octane w/ booster. There was 1/8th tank when the rebuild started, so we had to "liven" that up.

2: Those damn autolite plugs were sparkin a dim yellow, so I had them replaced with NGK V Powers and Wires. I guess the next step is to either replace the coil pack and get a MSD DIS-4.

I'm really confused because I think we've tried everything except for changing out EVERY sensor. Some are well over $200. Steep.

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:49 pm

rsstiboy wrote:just a question, why did you NOT rebuild it with forged parts?

I'm sure the cost of forged parts was ALOT more than what he paid for the stock internals.

Finn1 · Post by **Finn1** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:03 pm

Hei, I have a thought, may sound strange. I just finished an air box mod and haven't connected the hose that connects from the plenum(just past the TB) to the intake (1st hose after MAF). My car wouldn't start, in a mad attempt I just cracked the throttle open and she started and ran like a champ.

Take a penny and place it between the throttle stop screw and the arm then try cranking.

What could it hurt?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:31 pm

Finn1 - It sounds like you're talking about the idle air hose. I hope you didn't just leave it loose in the engine bay; it's sucking unmetered and unfiltered air into the engine.

You could plug the hose and wedge the throttle open, basically eliminating the stock computer- and temperature-controlled idle.

Cody - You didn't say; are you getting any combustion at all?

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:34 pm

Nope. None at all. Its turning, and will turn all day... but no startup. I have replaced the Coilpack with another diamond, and am now replacing the cam sensors (@ $220 a piece). Yikes.

I am becoming increasingly frustrated.

Oh, and the throttle thing. Of course Ive opened the throttle PLATE, making sure air was getting in, but I'm not big on running unfiltered air. Besides, my tech has probably done everything at least twice. I'm pretty sure its down to those cam position sensors.

Hopefully this nightmare will be over soon...

Finn1 · Post by **Finn1** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:29 pm

Forgive me if this is already covered.

I am gathering from the previous posts that a 2.5L crank and rods would drop right into an EJ22 block using stock 2.2L pistons.

If so, what years are best to look for?

If this is correct I may be building myself a stroker as well.

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:30 pm

i have a phase II 2.5 short block w/a fried piston but good crank and rods. i was thinking of putting the 2.5 short in place of the 2.2 short and using all the 2.2 heads and stuff. but compresion concerns have risen and now i may use the crank and rods w/my 2.2 block and 2.2 pistons. i too am wondering if this will work properly? what else is needed. i have never built an engine before but would be assisted by exp. tech.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:10 pm

You'd have to figure out if the piston will protrude from the head with the new the crank - there's not a lot of extra room before the head so you may need different rods. Also keep in mind that top end rpm ability will be decreased (likely not an issue in this case, though, as its more valve train limited as it stands) in exchange for better lower end torque. See what someone else who's done this did - let them do the hard part.

Steve

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:57 pm

Well, I think we've found the problem. But I'm not gonna say for sure that it will be done (knock on wood). We have some cam angle sensors on the way from Subaru. Putting them in today.

Fingers crossed.

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:17 pm

Well, It wasnt the cam angle sensors... and now my tech has decided to give up. This doesnt help my situation much. I am gonna have to take the whole car to the guy that built the engine.

I'm this close to freakin' out dammit.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:39 pm

did you ever test the ignitor? or just replaced it?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:10 pm

What did you think the problem was?

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:32 pm

I now know that spark isnt the problem. I replaced everything but the starter(ignition wise). It has to do with the timing. It must. I think I am 180 deg off or something. Off enough that the sensors will not adjust for it. The REALLY wierd thing is that no codes are popping up at all. None.

My worst fear is that I will have to break it all the way back down and put the old internals back in and have the engine rebuilt all over again. Frustrating beyond belief.

PS: I just got back from south carolina. I had to pick up my temp replacement. The ol' 87 Caprice Classic. It was my great grandma's. 87K original 1 owner miles. Time to get some twanky twos on that bizitch.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:39 pm

180 degrees off would actually kind of work, I think; since it's waste spark you'd still get sparks at the right time but the sequential fuel injection would be backwards so you'd have a hard time starting.

You'd get some combustion, too.

I've seen engines with the timing waaay off try to start. There's almost always some kind of backfire and sometimes a little combustion in the cylinder.

If you're not getting any combustion at all, I think you might not have a strong enough spark. Is the battery nice and strong?

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:59 pm

Muahahahha... Its ALIVE! I finally broke down and took it to the suby dealer. After 3 weeks at a "regualr" mechanic, the subaru guys had it running in 2 hours!!!! Much to my suprise, IT WAS THE TIMING! It was WAAAY off. The 'regular' mechanics couldnt find the crank markings I guess. only cost me 2 hours of labor @ subaru. The other guys charged me over $580 for getting absolutely nothing done! the only thing that they did to really help was change out the coilpack (so now I have an extra diamond pack).

It runs outstanding. A good bit more low-end torque, which I noticed in the corners especially. I am taking it easy though for the first 700 miles or so.

I'm so friggin happy right now!

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Thu May 06, 2004 2:18 pm

thats great!

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu May 06, 2004 2:50 pm

Awesome. I'm glad you got it figured out in the end.

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Stroker Woes. HELP!

Stroker Woes. HELP!