Headlight Project

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:22 am

The difference is primarily subjective, THAWA, between the Cibies and the Hellas. I think Cibie does make some 90mm optics as well, though, since I recall some Morettes having Cibie optics instead of Hellas.

Just so you guys understand, it's probably not a reasonably achievable goal to fabricate glass lenses that would work with the stock housings, reflectors, and bulbs. And aftermarket lights like the ones we're discussing here don't require any additional optics in the forms of lenses.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:43 am

I was thinking about modifying the housing to fit 90mm hellas and replacing the standard lens with an unfluted plastic cover so that it shouldn't effect the optics of the hellas much if at all.

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sat May 22, 2004 7:23 am

After reading Steve's last post, I realize his terminology is much better than mine. I referred to "clear glass lens" whereas Steve says "unfluted" lens.

I was thinking of a totally new fabrication of brackets for Cibie's or Hellas without the stock housings. Especially if attempting to fit the CSRs on the '93-'94s. Then in front of those lights would be an unfluted glass covering for the purpose of aesthetics, aerodynamics, and protection for the lights.

I saw on another thread somewhere a photo of a Legacy with quad round headlights with what looked something like a screen mesh in front of them.

Anyway, THAWA, I'm thinking that if Daniel Stern has made the Cibie's CSRs his choice of lighting on his car, then it must mean from his perspective that it's the best right now.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat May 22, 2004 2:02 pm

I would imagine Daniel put them on a car designed for those sealed beams.

The Hellas have the advantage of being purposely designed for custom-made headlights, so they are easy to mount and aim.

Steve, I like your idea. It's what I was gonna do, too. I got plastic headlight lens covers and everything. The Hellas are slightly too big for the 92-94 headlight housings (it could work with a little massaging though) but they'd probably fit well into the 90-91 housings.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:07 pm

yeah I measured the 90-91 housing and it looks like there'd be enough room for the hella's and for another light if you could get a small enough one (driving light maybe

)

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:49 pm

You took into account that the Hella 90mms have separate high and low beams, right?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:04 pm

I'm not sure yet exactly what I want. A single Hella would be fine and could be placed more or less where the stock bulb would go, looking more like stock. However, a smaller inboard light would look cool as well as being useful. I wish I could rig up something simple to get the inboard lights to turn with the wheels like the Citroen SM and some new imitators have. Old cars in the thirties had optional moving driving lights, so there must be a relatively easy solution, but don't know if it would be compatible with a modern car.

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat May 22, 2004 9:36 pm

Moving headlights are hard because it's hard to maintain aim. And high beams have to be aimed just like low beams. I'm sure you could work something out though with encoders and stuff if it can't be done mechanically.

If you put a single Hella low beam in each housing, you'd have to rely on driving lights for high beams... You'll have to be really picky about which driving lamp you buy and how well you aim it. You also might lose some ability to signal with them (since people would probably just think you're flashing your fog lights), but that's probably okay, especially if you have your lows turn off when you turn on your highs.

I do like the factory inboard driving lights some markets got on BC/BFs:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/pics ... agon_2.jpg

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat May 22, 2004 9:48 pm

Yeah, the lights would have to rotate in a non-linear ratio to to the tires and maintaining horizontal orientation would be difficult. It seems I'd need servo motor (s) with some kind of mapping to interpret steerin angle signals to the encoder. Vehicle speed may also change it since at low speed/small truning angle little to no light movement would be necessary, yet at high speed/smalll turning angle some movement would be preferable.

I thought the Hellas were high/low combined. That's fine. Maybe I could twin them up like BMWs. I'd prefer the twin lamp look anyway.

Practicality-wise I'll just maintain using my fog lights as sort of poor man cornering lights as I have them aimed slightly out to the sides to use the wider beam to help with cornering. This and getting rid of the black molding ought to take a good ten years off the car's looks.

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:12 pm

Yeah, they're meant to be set up a lot like the BMW twin headlights.

Combined high/low headlights always have to be a compromise, since you don't get to aim them separately and the optics can't be optimized for either lamp. Since the 90mm lights are pretty compact, it makes perfect sense to use separate lights. Hella went further and used projectors for the low beams which allow for a more precise beam pattern and used complex reflectors for the high beams which are simple, lightweight, and efficient.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:05 am

Too bad the high beams weren't a little smaller. Smaller inner lights would better follow the shape of the headlight housing. Now I wonder what I could do with the side markers. The top mounting tabs broke and though I was able to repair them with metal strapping, they don't mate perfectly to the fender. I would rather improve it than get new ones that'll likely break also.

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:17 am

The housings actually are a little bit smaller, even though the lenses have the same diameter.

It kind of shows in this picture:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/images/90mm%20Side.jpg

The high beams are also much lighter in weight.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:45 am

vrg3 wrote:You took into account that the Hella 90mms have separate high and low beams, right?

yes. Measured from the shorter/top part there looks to be about, shit i forget how much but a couple of inches. Dunno what you could shove in there but something might work.

vrg3 wrote:I do like the factory inboard driving lights some markets got on BC/BFs:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/pics ... agon_2.jpg

yeah that's kinda what I meant

czo79 · Post by **czo79** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:05 am

they make a bixenon 90mm projector...if only one fits easy on the 92-94's.
I've definately thought about rigging something up with a four of the regular hella 90mm projectors. maybe a sheetmetal body colour panel approx the shape of the stock headlight with two conical "indents" leading to the setback projectors....

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:50 am

Are you referring to the Hella headlamps used in the Mercedes E-class? They do use one HID light source for both high and low beams, but they still have to augment them with a pair of halogen high beams.

I personally think it's not a great idea to retrofit HID headlights... The halogens are better in many ways.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:55 am

I thought he was talking about theses: http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_m ... am%20Lamps

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun May 23, 2004 5:07 am

Oh. Woah, I didn't even know they had come out with those yet. That's cool.

Unfortunately, you still need halogen high beams to maintain "light horn" functionality.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:37 am

I took some rough measurements with a tape measure and the prefacelift is ~ 12" across, 4" at the inside vertical and 5" at the outside vertical. Plenty of room.

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:13 am

vrg3, what's "'light horn' functionality"?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:34 am

When you signal other drivers by by pulling the stalk towards you to flash your car's high beams.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:58 am

Thank you!

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:35 am

why cant you do this with the bixenons?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:51 pm

HID lights take a few seconds to power on, so they can't be flashed on and off.

That's one of the reasons why every car that comes from the factory with HID low beams has halogen high beams.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:09 pm

ah, thats pretty gay.

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Headlight Project