Why doesnt this engine exist?

[evolutionmovement]

Thankfully FHI has the brass ones to stand up to GM's bad demands for the most part. They refused to take a GM platform for their upcoming 7-seater.

I think Mercedes-Benz's idea for replaceable fluid canisters in the exhaust of their upcoming US diesels to meet emissions is going to be a disaster. Either customers have to keep on top of replacement of these 'urea' canisters (meaning they'll have to go to the dealer for something additional with their rape prices) or the car won't run if the canister isn't replaced. How many people, especially paying good money for a car, are going to tolerate that? What if there's an emergency and the POS needs a recharge? Things have to be transparent.

Steve

[BAC5.2]

Volvo tried a wet-scrub exhaust system in one of their prototype cars. The exhaust was cleaner than any gasoline car ever produced. But you had to replace urea cans as well.

IIRC, the idea only made it to paper, and never to production.

The idea is great, but it's impossible to implement unless you want to tow a cleaning system with you everywhere.

Wet-scrub the exhaust and it would come out as clean as could be (so clean you'd probably be better off breathing the exhaust than the air in LA) but you'd need filters to keep the wet system efficient.

[THAWA]

But does that sound like a practical every-day set up? An average car's lucky to have its oil changed regularly.

Steve

If you market a car with "an extra tank of water that lowers emmisions, improves gas mileage and increases performance" then give it enough hype, add a gauge to the instrument cluster (with a big warning light), make it easily accessible, put multiple warnings on it that say "Do not run w/o water", have a starter kill where if the water level is too low the car wont start/run, and put a couple of badges on the car that say "waterpowered" or some crazy shit, then yes. I do think that people will realize that there is somthing extra that needs to be filled every so often. I know you're not impressed by the human race but have a little more faith.

[THAWA]

And 1 bar is a lot different from 20psi (5.3psi to be exact). A lot can happen with that 5.3psi, ESPICALLY on a smaller engine. Less material means less margin for error in production. You could make a toothpick that could support a house, but would you want to?

1 bar can be done mostly safely on the stock ECU. More than that, and you are pushing what a stock ECU could acclimate itself to. You'd need standalone which would need dyno tuning every so often to keep running on pump gas without knocking so bad you wake the neighbors.

Like Steve said, an average car doesn't get it's oil changed at even intervals. It is simply not a practical solution.

Steve is with me on this one, right?

that's why I said more than 1 bar, not 1 bar exactly. Why do you think 1 bar is so special that any ecu can do fine with it? Not all ecu's can take 14.7 psi. If you setup an ecu correctly it can handle any pressure.

[evolutionmovement]

People want convenience. Whay are sta-nacv systems so poular when a map costs $10? Convenience. Fast food restaurants? Frozen dinners? Cell phones? Only a small demographic (like electric car lovers or early adopters of hybrids) would gladly deal with such a system.

Steve

[BAC5.2]

that's why I said more than 1 bar, not 1 bar exactly. Why do you think 1 bar is so special that any ecu can do fine with it? Not all ecu's can take 14.7 psi. If you setup an ecu correctly it can handle any pressure.

Hardy, you are missing my point.

A 1L 4cylinder @ 13psi will not make the same power as a 2.2L 4cylinder @ 13psi.

To make any kind of comparable power, the 1L would have to run more boost to make the same power.

Now while a GOOD, well kept tune can deal with most pressure you could throw at it, and keep the car running on pump gas, there is a very finite limit.

You'd need an intercooler the size of Nico's, and a CONSISTANTLY dead-on tune to make a 1L engine as reliable as a larger variant. I've been to TurboXS and Altered Atmosphere (home of the worlds fastest Dodge Stealth/3000GT) and seen what happens on a poor tune. You'd be lucky to make reliable power to compare with an N/A EJ22 on a 1L engine.

I think you are looking way to far into what I said, just trying to find a problem.

You can put all the signs you want on the car, and people will still forget to fill the water tanks. You'd think an oil change every 3,000 miles would be common knowledge, it even says to do so in the owners manual. Average Joe will do it when he feels like it.

Steve is right, convenience is key. If the water tanks filled themselves, then people would be more adept to the idea.

[THAWA]

I totally understood that, that wasn't what I was argueing. How i'm seeing is you think a 1l with 20psi is the equivilent to an ej22e with 12psi. With no kind of tuning yes it will die, but as subie_do has shown us with just injection, a rrfpr, and an safc (i believe) it can be semi-stable. But if he actually took the time to tune it, add an I/C, and some other crap it would run like a champ, not because it's got 1.2 more liters than the other but because with tuning you can even out the crap. I do agree that convenience is what EVERYONE wants. If you don't think the signs will work then use my other idea of an ignition kill if the water level gets too low. If the car wont run, and there's a light flashing that says "WATER" I'm pretty sure it would b figured out soon enough.

[BAC5.2]

Yea, with tuning. Joe Slow treehugger isn't going to have the time to mess around with fuel ratios and read 3 different LCD screens telling every aspect of fuel trim, timing, and what radio station he's listening to. He wants to drive the car to the next anti-war rally, not sit at home on a saturday messing with adjustments to get his car to run without exploding.

And if you have a flashing water light, people will use tap water because it's free. Tap water would kill all of the lines it goes through. And it would freeze in the winter. So the Water cost (which would be expensive) would be in addition to the fuel cost. Plus the time to keep the car perfectly in tune (there's no such thing as set and forget with boost). Consumers just won't have it. At least not around where I live.

[THAWA]

oh hehe, I didn't mean the consumer tunes it I meant tuned from the factory. A simple inline filter should take care of most of that stuff. The freezing in the winter part though, I didn't think about. And as far as set and forget with boost, isn't that what all production turbo cars are? When was the last time you HAD to tune your ecu?

[BAC5.2]

You'd then have to replace the filter every month, or more. Tap water varies from area to area, and a fine enough filter would clog easily.

Freezing, yep, kind of hard to get around that one.

With that much boost, teetering on the edge of detonation on pump fuel, a good tune is required. Not just a good tune, but a nearly perfect tune. Varying environmental conditions would require a tune to be flexible enough to handle Mile High City and Death Valley without so much as batting an eyelash. I'm sure you could have a wicked broad tune, but that wouldn't be as stable at high boost, and it would be super expensive.

[evolutionmovement]

The fluid I was talking about is called 'urea' by M-B, it contains a lot of ammonia from what I understand, but I don't know what else there is.

Fuel quality also varies widely from place to place making a consistent streetable tune impossible for something so edgy.

Steve

[THAWA]

isnt urea cow piss? I seem to remember one of my teachers always bringing something like that up whenever someone was putting on lotion.

[evolutionmovement]

That's what I thought when I read it, but I'm not exactly a farming type, so I figured I must be wrong. Hell, maybe it IS cow piss.

Steve

[BAC5.2]

Urea is in all piss I think.

[TurboLegacy]

if there is a way to make 2 strokes less pollutant , a small , powerful, and high reving engine could be use that is also good on gas. it would save on weight because it is small and has no oil pan or pump. they should just use good catalytic converters to make them better for the environment.

[BAC5.2]

2-strokes suck for driveability. Very on/off throttle response, no linear power delivery.