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Tleg93
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Geeeeeez!!

Post by Tleg93 »

I got popped for speeding recently. :x I was doing 62 in a 45. Here's the thing, I heard through someone else (retired statey) that if there's a zone where there's a reduced speed zone and then an increase after that zone that the reduced speed zone has to be 1 mi long to pop speeders for going over the reduced speed limit. I went back to the place I was popped and found that the reduced zone was only .7 mi long. It goes from a 55 to a 45 and then back to a 55. I was speeding up to get into traffic when I was popped in a speed trap on memorial day. I even saw the cops there but I thought it had turned back to a 55. Anybody have any experience with this out there? I plan on pleading not guilty. The sad thing was that my license had expired a week prior to that :( so I got fined for that too.

On the lighter side, this may be funny. When the cop was leaving I leaned out the window and screamed "officer!" because he kept my information. He pulled over about 50-60 ft ahead and walked back to my car, leaning warily towards me. I said to him "Did you plan on keeping my information or would you like to give it back to me!" He walked back to his car and then all the way back to me and gave me my stuff. He apologized and I told him "It's ok officer we all make mistakes!" Then he left and I had a private little smile for a moment. Anyway, please help if anyone knows if what I said above is true.
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Brat4by4
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Post by Brat4by4 »

Go to the library and check your state's revised code. Also look for speeding ticket specific lawyers in a city near you, they should have good prices for a simple ticket.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16

62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

Well, I guess that you can't use the small fonts and colors on the topic header!!!!
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Legacy777
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Post by Legacy777 »

what state do you live in?

More then likely you're going to fubar'd. You can check local laws and go check the distances. If they're not kosher.....I suppose you have grounds to stand on....as long as there's not a loophole somewhere so they can get away with it.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
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If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

I live in PA.
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Legacy777
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Post by Legacy777 »

where in PA did this occur.....I'm assuming it was a statey that got you with radar.....or was it a local with vascar or some other bs timing shit.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

I was nabbed by a statey with Radar.
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

Something else I was wondering is how much does it raise insurance to get nabbed doing 12 mph over the posted.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, I found out the answer to that other question. This is the deal. Any reduced speed zone must be min. 1/2 mi long to enforce the limit and there has to be a posted sign every 500 ft. This zone is 7/10 long so I guess I'm gonna have to eat it, *%^&^#%(@(&^%^@)#.
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Brat4by4
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Post by Brat4by4 »

Still plead not-guilty and go in and talk to the prosecutor. You have nothing to lose. More than likely the fine will be reduced and/or the charge reduced. I've had many reduced to non-moving violations which don't show up on any sort of record.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16

62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

Really, on what grounds do you plead not guilty for that?
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
Brat4by4
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Post by Brat4by4 »

you don't need grounds. you are innocent until proven guilty (supposedly). in the strict sense of the way the courts work, they must prove that you broke the law.

but when you talk to the prosecutor in a pre-trial you can just see if they are willing to make a deal, many are. if you go straight to court you can hope the officer doesn't show up, or you can make a small case and hope to win. but you have to check with how the local court works... i only have experience in Ohio. calling up the court clerk and asking questions will get you the quickest answers.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16

62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
Legacy777
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Post by Legacy777 »

what part/town of PA was it.....is it close to where you live, or would you have to drive to go to court?
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

It's about 10 miles away, not far.
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
elkaboom
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Post by elkaboom »

brat4by4 is right on. I read somewhere (and this is backed up by my old man -who's a 32 year vetren of the Cleveland police dept.) that almost of half of all speeding tickets are completely tossed out when contested.
A lot of times the officers don't appear in court (or on time), and as a result, the defendant has the ticket thrown out.
Your best bet is to aggressvly contest the charges (in a professional and couteous manner, of course) and see what happens.
Best of luck man :lol: .
Bob
90 Legacy LS AWD n/a -190,000 and going strong!

91 Legacy SS -currently stock and awaiting marginal upgrades (dead) RIP
Tleg93
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Post by Tleg93 »

Thanks
--Scott--

1991 - Rio Red SS
vrg3
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Post by vrg3 »

This sucks, Scott.

If it was near where you live, your court experience will probably be a lot like my two (:roll:) in Williamsport.

Which magisterial district, out of curiosity?

At least with District Justice Sortman, the courtroom only has three people in it: you, the judge, and the officer/trooper. The cop acts as the prosecutor.

If you want to plea bargain, the way I'd do it (assuming the court you're at works like Sortman's) would be to show up about twenty minutes early and catch the cop on his way in. Greet him friendlily (he's likely to be friendly as well) and ask if you might work something out where you plead guilty to a lesser charge. He'll probably ask what you had in mind, so have an offer prepared even if you think it's not going to happen. He may have limits on what he's permitted to do, but chances are he'd like the chance to get out of court early and not have to fight you.

I called several traffic attorneys in Lycoming county when I was dealing with one of my tickets, including the one Matt referred me to. They all wanted hundreds of dollars just to plea bargain on my behalf; none of them seemed at all willing to actually try to fight the case. I think it's dumb to spend hundreds of dollars to have a lawyer plea bargain on your behalf in this case; just clean yourself up nicely, wear a tie, and be friendly and straightforward.

Like Brat4by4 says, you don't need to specify grounds when you plead not guilty. Realize that a plea of "not guilty" is not a claim to innocence; it's just a challenge to the prosecution's evidence. You can never be forced to say whether you are guilty or not; the 5th amendment gives you the right not to incriminate yourself.

Also, I believe that in Pennsylvania, a "not guilty" plea is the only way to get a trial for a speeding citation.

Even if you plan to plea bargain, you should still do a little research in case you actually want to or have to fight the charge in court. Check out what kind of radar unit he was using, and see if the manufacturer can get you some specs (if it turns out to be a Decatur Genesis Handheld unit, I have some literature from Decatur I could send you). Read the specific section of the vehicle code that you were cited for violating. Read the portion of the code that specifies when you can and can't be cited.

This is a good resource: http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/Index.html. Especially pay attention to this page: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/75PA3368.html.

The statement that a lot of tickets get thrown out when contested is less true than it used to be. These days in most jurisdictions cops have special days set aside every few weeks for them to be in court, so they're pretty likely to show up. Some places even give them bonus pay. Even when you get a continuance, the court usually checks with the police department to find a day when the cop will be there. I'm not trying to jinx you; I'm just telling you what I know.

My suggestion is to do a little research about it, and then either prepare to fight it, or simultaneously prepare to plea bargain and prepare to fight if you have to. If you need more time to figure this stuff out, write a letter to the court requesting a continuance. Reasons I've used in the past when requesting continuances include needing to be at school to teach, being out of town for the holidays, and having to give a presentation in a class I was taking.

(I am not a lawyer, and the above is not necessarily good legal advice; it is just my opinion based on my experience.)

Keep us posted...
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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Post by Brat4by4 »

the cop is NOT allowed by law to act as prosecutor. i'm not sure if this is a national or state-by-state issue. only a true prosecutor has the power to offer a plea bargain (in ohio for sure). some hill-billy back woods places try to get away with this and you can ream them in ohio.

but to back up Vikash, be familiar with you citation and the law. peruse through the laws while you are at, there is some interesting stuff. one way to really get a cop off of your back is to know the law better than he does... kind of takes away their only leg to stand on.

if the court system you deal with wants to go straight to trial... you can also contact the prosecutor's office before hand and try to arrange a pre-trial or plea bargain. and yes, dress nice like Vikash said. you'd be surprised what people wear to court.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16

62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
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Post by vrg3 »

There are a lot of jurisdictions where traffic court is really really different from real court. The trooper did act as the prosecutor in my case. More than one attorney in Lycoming County told me that the way to plea bargain in a traffic court case is to talk to the officer or trooper just before the trial begins. I guess maybe technically it's a "hearing" and not a "trial" or something.

In some courts up here in Upstate NY, the "courtroom" is just a small room with a round table and four seats, one of which is normally empty. The defendant, the cop, and the judge just sit and talk it out.

I do know that if you're found guilty in Lycoming County you have the right to appeal for a trial de novo. That may be how they get around the rule that the cop can't be the prosecutor or something, if such a rule exists in PA.

So, yeah, keep in mind that even if you're found guilty this time around, you could still appeal and have another chance to fight or plea bargain. You'll probably have an actual prosecutor to deal with the second time around, which can be easier. A letter to the prosecutor here in Ithaca turned one of my speeding tickets into a citation for littering.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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